recording stopped recording in progress well hello and thank you for
attending let's start over hello thanks for attending the June 7th 2023 design
review Commission this is our regular meeting number one just taking care of
paperwork as a courtesy technology permitting members of the public may
continue to provide live remote oral comment via the city's zoom video
conference and platform. However, the city cannot guarantee that the public
access to teleconference and technology will be uninterrupted and the technical
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provide comments as part of the meeting are encouraged to either submit written
comments at least two hours prior to the meeting or attend the meeting in person.
Please refer to the end of the agenda to review options for participating in the
including Zoom options. There we go. So now we're gonna do our roll call. So let's
proceed. I missed it. Did you provide the Zoom
information? Do I have to? Okay. If you want to attend via Zoom, you want to go
to zoom.us. The median ID is 842-449-7147. Login password is 428-723.
And you can also join by phone at 1-669-900-6833. So now we'll do the roll call.
Okay, thank you, Chair. Commissioner Killian? Here. Commissioner Case? Here. Vice
Chair Kreling? Here. Chair Newsom? Here. We have a quorum. Commissioner Valia is ill
and called in ill. Sorry to hear that, okay. So with that out of the way, is
there anything on the consent calendar? There is there is nothing and there is
no suggestion to move anything to consent.
Very well.
Moving along.
Let's go to public communications.
This portion of the meeting is reserved for comment
on items not on the agenda.
Under the Brown Act, the commission
cannot act on items raised during public communications,
but may respond briefly to statements
made or questions posed.
Request clarification or refer the item to staff.
Do we have any public communication?
None seen, is there anybody on Zoom?
There are none.
Okay, let's move along to the public hearing.
In a meeting where multiple public hearings are scheduled,
the chairperson with concurrence of commission
may reorder items, there's only one item here,
so let's just move ahead with that.
And that is the porcelona?
Porcelenusa?
Porcelenusa, extra your facade remodeled.
Does staff have a presentation?
They do.
Prior to that, can Secretary ask if there
has been any ex parte communication
with the applicant from any of the commissioners?
No.
You probably never heard me ask that.
No.
Thank you.
The city, we are here tonight to consider the design review
for the exterior facade remodel for the Porcelanosa storefront
that is located at the corner of Cyprus and North Broadway.
The application number's Y23-022.
The applicant, Jay Kimmel, is here tonight,
as am I, to answer any questions
that you may have after this presentation.
The project site is located
in the city's downtown core area
at the northwest corner of North Broadway and Cypher Street.
And the site contains an existing two-story building
that has office uses on the second floor
and retail tenants on the ground floor.
The primary tenant on the ground floor
currently porcelain osa and the surrounding area consists of retail and
office uses and just a little background on July 19th 2019 the design
review Commission approved the exterior facade remodel for the porcelain osa
building the previous design was approved prior to the pandemic and
consisted of three const contrasting tiles in alternating sizes that were
installed on the building facade and the remodel at the time also included new
middle canopies and a new paint scheme included here is a rendering of that
previous approval and this is also included as part of your agenda packet
tonight and the applicant is proposing a toned down update from the previous
design approval stating that recent product supply and labor market issues
has caused increases in the cost of work so the intent is to refresh the
existing building while bringing down the cost of the project to make it more
feasible. The proposed scope of work includes the removal of all of the
copper metal and decorative features that you see here, the stone and the
ceramic tile on the existing storefront. The existing green metal canopies
located on the storefront windows and storefront window frames will be painted
a black color and the existing burgundy canvas will be replaced with a
new black fabric canvas. The metal trellises with the vines along both
frontage will also be removed. The existing planters near the entrance will
be removed, and the landscape pockets at the base of the storefront, which you see
here, will be filled with concrete to match the existing sidewalk, and I
believe the existing horizontal banding along the base of the storefront will
remain. And all the existing signage on the building will also be removed and
replaced. And I also wanted to point out, since I have a photo up here, the third
photograph that you see on the upper portion of the facade and this is for
both on Cyprus and North Broadway. There's this existing build-out that
projects out a little bit from the building facade. Oh yeah I will use my
mouse. I hope I got it the right place right here. So this will actually remain
and revisions were recently received just moments before the public hearing
started so a copy of those revisions or revised plans showing that they will
retain this and it will not be just smooth stucco so that build out will
remain and I believe all of you have a copy of the revisions and as actually I
think there was one other thing yet the paint scheme so staff had recommended
that the applicant should consider a secondary color or alternative color for
either the base or the cornice to break up the one tone color so the applicant
did take that consideration did did all use a different paint scheme for the
cornice. Sorry I don't have that where I could share it but you all have a copy
of it. Does the the commissioners recognize that that new drawing that's
been placed that you're yeah okay. Thank you. So the proposed changes consist of
beige stucco and a grape porcelain tile that will be applied to the tower
element and saw fit at the storefronts main entrance and the tile element will
cover the entry tower but not the entire frontage of North Broadway and Cypress
as it was previously approved. The new entry tile has a cleaner look
eliminating the bulky component at the existing entryway and staff would like
DRC's comment on these changes.
And here are the side elevations of the building.
As mentioned earlier, all stone and decorative features
will be removed and replaced with stucco siding.
The applicant is keeping it very minimal
and only painting both of the elevations
and replacing the existing fabric canvas on the canopies
with a black fabric.
And here is a rendering of the storefront
along both street facing elevations.
The only landscaping that is provided on site
will be the two 18-inch tall planter boxes
that will be placed on both sidewalks along North Broadway
and Cypress Street as seen on this rendering.
The planters will be filled with shrubs,
ground cover, and plantings,
and the planter box will be finished with porcelain tile
to match the building facade.
And all of the existing signage on the building
will be removed and the primary 18-inch tall channel-lit wall sign reading
porcelain osa is proposed to be installed on a steel bracket that will
be suspended above the ground floor front entry doors in front of the
storefront glass. Two similar 16-inch tall descriptor signs reading kitchen
and bath and hardwood tile are also proposed on two of the storefront bays on
on the existing canopies along both frontages.
And the sign details for the other two ground floor
retail tenants that are located on Cypress Street
was provided as part of the submittal.
And since the entire facade incorporates
only one paint color and minimal tile elements
along the entryway, staff did recommend
that the applicant add another paint color or material
to break up the monotone appearance of the building.
The overall appearance of the building
could incorporate a darker shade of color
for the cornice, the vertical columns,
or the base of the building, which
would help soften the building height.
The applicant could also consider
painting the existing brick base on the west end.
North elevation is a different color
to provide a contrast with other elevations.
Staff would like DRC to comment on the proposed color
and materials that are proposed tonight.
And I believe you have the actual color and materials
board before you tonight. And staff also recommends that the existing landscaping
pockets and half circle banding again seen here that is located along both
storefronts remains in place and the planter pockets be replanted with new
shrubs. Staff believes this would help soften the storefront and provide some
sort of landscaping feature for the building. Staff would like DRC to comment
on this portion of the project as well.
And with that, staff does recommend
that the Design Review Commission
approve the proposed exterior remodel subject
to the conditions that are included in the draft
resolution.
And with that, I do conclude my presentation,
but I'm happy to answer any questions.
Thank you.
Any questions?
Did I hear you where you said they're only
going to paint two sides?
No, they're painting the entire storefront,
but I think I mentioned the back.
They have a brick base, but they're painting the brick base
and the back, both elevations, just one color.
OK, so they're painting all four sides.
They're all four sides, yeah.
I'm sorry.
Well, I mean, this tenant does not have the entire building.
They have a portion of the ground floor.
So is this application for does it include all of the storefronts in the entire building or just the entire building the upper and lower?
Okay, yeah, you're you're you're you're referring to the window framing and window framing. Yeah. Yeah everything. Yes
The entire storefront. Yes, and and all the awnings
Everything okay, do you want to come up and
Introduce yourself
That's next up right? Yeah you cuz some of these questions might be for staff for the applicant. Yeah, just I mean I
Yeah, so that's that's next up right so is
Does the applicant have a presentation?
Okay, that's fine
Do we have any questions for the applicant? Okay
OK, I have a question.
So on the rendering, the tiles that are on the corner are,
I don't know if I'm going to get this right.
One's the soldier bond, and the other one's
where it's just stacked.
So are they going to be staggered,
or are they going to be aligned, the tile pattern?
Because I saw two different ones.
Does that question make sense?
They're going to be, the horizontal joints
will be aligned.
Horizontal, and what about the vertical?
Because on this one, see there's a vertical joint,
but on the other details, it's got the offset.
There.
Right.
I think that is older.
So it's the.
So is it that one, or is it the detail?
Because the only place I see the vertical
seems like this where they're aligned is on the rendering.
And all the other examples have it with the offset.
So I just wanted clarity on which one it is.
It is the offset.
I think this rendering has been updated.
So the shown in the elevations is
how they propose to construct it.
OK.
And then the corner treatment, so I
mean that corner comes to a point.
That seam, that vertical edge that
will be the very tip of the corner element,
is that just going to be like a grouted seam,
or is there some kind of an edge that will happen there?
So this is a rain screen system.
so the tile is actually being held by a metal bracket system
off of the wall.
So there's no grout in between the tiles,
so it's just gonna be a joint there.
Got it, okay.
And then my last question is the city has suggested
that maybe those half circles with the planters stay.
Was it intentional that they were removed
because there's like that vertical screen element
that helps a vine climb or just,
what was the thought behind that?
The client is pretty set on wanting those removed.
And the reason for that is not wanting any landscaping,
really, at the base of the building.
It prevents people from getting really close to the building.
And what they want is they want people to come and see in.
So they're trying to remove anything
that's going to kind of get in your way
from getting right up to the storefront
and seeing what's happening there.
Porcelonosa is like a, I don't know how to say it in Spanish,
but they're like tray mode, you know, they're very slick.
They sell very modern rectilinear products.
That's the style, that's the brand
that they're trying to create on the outside as well.
So they are pretty set
in wanting to push the landscaping away from the storefront.
Okay, and is there concern
or do you think there would be an issue
with that patching looking kind of funky?
You know what I mean?
it bulbs out because there was an element there.
And when you go back and just pave it, don't you think it might be?
Well, that's why we're going to match the sidewalk color.
So it could hopefully look like it's meant to be there already.
The grate will be removed, and then that whole space
will be filled with the gray sidewalk.
So you still have the kind of pattern there on the ground.
Right.
Are you concerned about the bit that you fill in looking so new
the bit next to it's like old I don't know I just have found that gets tricky
yeah we definitely don't want any major contrast mm-hmm we're gonna avoid any
sort of it's not gonna be shiny white white gray concrete that would go in
there then sparkle next to next to the older stuff mm-hmm but they they are set
on wanting to get the landscape away from the building okay and actually this
This picture is the bottom right of what we're seeing on our screen right now shows kind
of those glass squares.
Is that to remain?
Are all the windows as they are to remain and that's just changing the paint of what's
currently green to black?
Yes.
Okay.
So like the structure of the building remains the same.
It's primarily paint and then that rain screen that's being-
And we're stripping off all of the decorative elements.
Okay.
So no more of the patina copper stuff?
Okay.
And there's a decorative tile around three of the corners,
or actually four of the corners.
So all that's coming off as well.
And is there any concern?
So again, on the bottom left of what we're looking at now,
so we're taking off those decorative panels.
It's now just gonna be this really vertical,
flat, one-colored wall.
Are we concerned that that's bland or is-
That's kind of what we're going for
because that's why we're gonna paint
all of the storefronts black.
So it's really going to pop.
And then hopefully what you see is through the window.
And the building is really a picture box for the products
that they're selling inside.
That's what they're going for.
We have trees along the street already there.
So it's not like we're exposed out there on the sidewalk.
And I think painting all of the awnings black,
replacing the canvas with black, also adds a visual element
to the sparser solid.
OK.
Those are my questions.
OK.
I had to be careful to separate out my comments
from my questions.
On the colors, the only thing I'm having difficulty with,
Well, is this main color, I looked at it with the flashlight on my phone and moving it around.
I can't tell if it's a taupey color, a gray color, a beige color.
It's really hard to tell with this little square.
Would you be able to maybe describe that color a little bit more?
It's a taupey.
Taupey. Yeah.
And did you guys look at any other colors, like maybe something a little more gray or?
This was the design presented from the client.
Okay.
And then any chance we have a sample of that second color
on the new elevation you're going to use at the top?
I don't have one on me,
but it's going to match the tile color.
Okay, so more of a gray tone.
Yes.
And then is this the exact tile that will be used,
this like rough texture and colors?
Yes, that's the exact tile.
I'm not sure about the texture,
But it's the exact tile in terms of color.
OK, yeah, because this one's not smooth.
And I know a smoother tile would probably,
I'm going to use your term, the tray modern.
I've gone into porcelain osa.
They have beautiful products.
And I get what you're saying about the tray modern.
And a smoother tile, to me, would be much more befitting
their product and brand than this textured tile.
So maybe just something to think about.
And then the other question, thank you for that.
The other question, just going back to what Commissioner Case
was asking about the, I understand the narrative
on why you want to move the landscape off the sidewalk.
Makes sense.
But then again, listening to your description of the brand
and thinking about their products
than wanting the building, you're
going to have this sort of filled in semicircle, right?
Won't that detract from that clean, flat, kind
of elongated, rectangular look that they're trying to get to?
It just seems like it'll, to me, I'm
wondering if that would look like just a patch semicircle that
doesn't fit the narrative that you were sharing.
and that, again, maybe just something to offer back up
to your client as to, because they could possibly
cut into the concrete so that, and then pull out
a little bit of the stuff that's not in the circle
so that the patch is a square or a rectangle,
then it might fit more what you're trying to say.
I couldn't imagine that would add maybe a wee bit of cost,
but I think it would match what you're saying better.
understand what you're saying there yeah I don't know exactly how to respond to
it right now other than to say that leaving them as round planters leaves
the same issue you're bringing up as if it's clean sidewalk too so yeah I'm
going with your premise that there shouldn't be a planter there to get the
design you're you're looking for and so if if I go with that premise that that
shouldn't be a planter then if you can find a way to square off the patching to
fit the style that you're I think you're trying to achieve for the look
that might I think more sense I think we can find a way to do that I mean yeah I
understand what you're saying yeah it might even be an opportunity to make it
a little smoother transition between old and new yeah anyway those are my
questions. Thanks. Okay. Brian, did you have anything? Yeah. Let me go back to Charles
questioning on this front element up there. I agree with his reasoning that
what you're showing there is, you know, it's this more of a heavy element just
looming over the entry. It's not anywhere else. And did you talk about any other
products that would be more smooth or more contemporary that fits with the
rest of your design.
It seems like you've gone now to this, which
is the soldier course, from a stack bond.
And I'm just wondering, what other did you
look at other options for that?
Because originally, that on the original design,
you know, that was disappearing.
You'd kind of wrap that into the building.
So that wasn't such a heavy corner element.
Right.
And the reason we're back here is
because of construction costs and inflation
and the client wanting to make this project happening
and not being able to afford the previously approved design.
So they came back to us with a much reduced scope.
And their idea here is this is the entry tower.
So it does symbolize where they're
trying to draw people into the building there.
That is kind of the weight of where we want attention.
Yeah, but normally you wouldn't have
this big, heavy stone element floating out on top.
I mean, there's no base to it or whether.
So again, I guess my question to you
is without increasing the cost to go to a different product
that seems to be a little bit more smooth and more
in keeping with their style as opposed to a stone element?
Well, part of this is to model their rain screen tile system.
So this is also a billboard for their products
and what they do more so in other parts of the country
where they put tile rain screens on the facades of buildings.
Yeah.
But I guess it could still be a tile rain screen, right?
but just different, instead of it being what you're proposing.
Can it not be a different?
Smoother tile.
Smoother tile.
So that is possible.
The signs on the exteriors, they're going to be lit, right?
They're proposed to be lit?
Three of them will be lit.
Yeah.
What are we going to see as far as the connections
and everything?
Because it seems like it's setting
on that existing framework.
So how are they going to run the conduit and everything
to light that, what are we going to see?
Well, the conduits already run.
There's already conduit there.
So those existing ones, they're not just panel lights?
They're lit up?
Well, no, they don't have the signs there now.
But the conduit is there from before.
So it runs along the back side of the awning system
and then goes into the building.
OK, but to get out to the sign along that framework,
Is that existing, the conduit?
Yes, it runs along the conduit like that.
OK, all right.
Along the bracket.
All right.
Is there a picture we could show on the front
where I want to jump to the existing landscaping,
the trees, and the sidewalk?
When you go out there, especially along the front,
that curb and sidewalk is pretty beat up and lifted up
from the root systems.
And some of the trees don't have grates anymore.
they've been filled in with various materials.
So again, and again, I don't know,
maybe this is a city question or not,
but to replace the grates and sidewalk,
you know, more for a safety issue,
but would that be part of this project?
Are you referring to the street trees
or the vines on- The street trees.
The street trees.
We would typically have a condition of approval
that if they're damaged by the construction
that they would replace them.
Well, where I'm going with it, some of them
have the standard city greats.
Others, because of the root structure and everything,
I've been filled in with asphalt.
So it's not a consistent look out there.
And the curbing is actually broken.
And some of the sidewalk by the front entry is lifted up.
So I did, there is this condition from engineering
that the planter box at Cypress Avenue,
nearest North Broadway may be installed
at proposed location if all lifting sidewalk is replaced
and adjacent trees replaced or its roots are trimmed.
Further recommendation and oversight of a licensed arborist.
I think that condition's limited to Cypress only.
It would show in the draft resolution.
But is that within our scope to,
we feel it's appropriate to fix the sidewalk
in the, as part of this project and make the...
My suggestion would be that and that's in the public realm to make a condition that
would be subject to the ultimate approval from the city engineer.
Okay. And then now going to those actual planner boxes, there's not too much detail on it.
I was a little bit concerned with just the drainage going out over the sidewalk and then
don't have too much faith I guess what you're proposing is have a reservoir
filled up here and there and the plants would get water from that as opposed to
having an irrigation system to them. Yeah it's an actual product. I'm familiar
with it but yeah yeah and you know what's going to be planted in the
planners. We have that suggested I believe. I'm looking at your sheet A-1
okay I'll get it and see that okay okay so some one gallon material right those
are my questions thank you. Okay great so I guess we'll move on to my questions
everybody else asked the questions right. I have one more when you're done. Go ahead
Do you think, I realize there's the Trey Modern look, but I feel like the
corner that we're looking at on a screen right there is kind of like the branding.
Is there any opportunity that over by that oak tree with the seating around it
that wall could be like a mural? Just seems like it would be fun. Like I don't
know it's pretty blank and it does have kind of like a playful edge and it
interfaces with some more seating and I don't know I just thought it might, it
doesn't seem like it would contradict their brand and it might be kind of a
fun, give back to the community. It wouldn't. And I would love to offer that, but we were already
getting bids back and they're already over their budget. Yeah. So I'm... I'm hesitant to add any
scope when the client says we can't even afford what we want to do right now. I wonder if there's
a scenario where, you know, it's it's something where maybe they can save and you guys are gonna
hate me, but like don't paint that edge and then they partner with the city or the high school or
or something to find somebody to paint a mural or something.
I don't know, I just am trying to get creative
on how it can be an awesome space.
Anyway, that was not a question, sorry, thank you.
I do wanna point out that the accessible parking
off that facade there is not on our property,
but we're gonna repaint all of the striping
and new signage there, so all of that will be right and new.
Point of clarification.
I was re-suggesting that northerly wall,
that that would be the opposite of Cyprus.
It would be the north.
Yes, I believe so.
You know what I'm talking about?
The oak tree with the round seating
at the base and the dog sculpture.
Yeah, the discussion of a mural there
has come up during the process of this.
So we're looking to see if there may be a program
that's either starting and it's Genesis now.
I'm not absolutely sure how it works.
But if there may be a artist who is looking for a canvas
and not a paycheck, that that might be offered up.
And I believe that the applicant was OK with that.
And how cool if the applicant only had to prime it,
and so then they don't have to do anything else.
It might save them some cost.
And then it's like a canvas, like you're
saying for somebody else.
I just don't know how much, how together that program is yet.
I don't know if the timing will work or not,
but we'll look into it.
All right, moving along.
So can we go to the existing photos?
I have a few questions.
OK, so first off, lower right hand corner.
So just to confirm, the intent is
to keep all of that red accent.
Well, now that we're talking about making a new shape there,
I would guess that that would probably come out.
And maybe we'd only have the red band
that's right at the base of the building.
I mean, I just, I'm gonna go at it.
I would just say, it's either,
it's gonna be a patch regardless of what you do,
unless you're gonna repave the whole sidewalk,
which no one has suggested, you know.
It's either, if you were to go try to patch that
and disrupt it and put a white piece of concrete there,
that in that place and square it off that would be like a third color so to
me I'm I'm gonna let my landscape commissioners here comment about whether
the planting is a good idea but I I would say it's either planning or fill
in the gap that's my position but I'd so so so that but that's that's how I'm
I'm gonna defer to others on that.
I'd say looking at the next image to the left of that,
there's, I think at the landing, the exterior landing,
I believe that's tile that's at the entry doors.
Does that sound right or is that more concrete?
I think it's pattern concrete.
And you're gonna take those planters out
that are there now or are they gonna stay?
Yeah, they wanna take those out.
Okay, so are those just sitting there
or when you pull those up,
are we gonna see rebar holes and other things?
I don't know, but they are built into the wall there,
so when we take them off,
we're gonna have to replace the glazing behind it.
I don't know how it's fastened to the ground, though.
Yeah, I mean, I think I would say if you pull that up
and it's damaged, I think you're gonna be faced
with replacing that whole swath of concrete
inside the red band.
I'd say some of my other questions were answered.
OK, so at the corners you have, I'm looking at F,
which is on the top row, second from the left,
you're taking off that green patina panel.
And I think you're taking the tiles off those corners
as well, right?
Correct.
So how are we gonna ensure that,
and you're coming back with plaster.
So, and the intention is to match the plaster
that remains on the rest of the building, somehow?
Yes.
Okay, that'd be important.
Looking at the next image over, image E,
you know how you have those IFS panels that pop out.
And in those panels you have those green tiles.
What are we gonna do about those?
Those are gonna be removed.
So they're gonna be removed,
and then we're gonna be looking at a hole in the eaves.
No, that would be patched.
All right.
There's little tiles like that embedded
kind of all over the building
that we're gonna need to pull out and patch
on the back side as well.
Yeah, I mean, paint it, patch it, whatever.
I mean, whatever is gonna be the least disruptive
is fine by me.
I think, what else do I got here?
We talked about the view boxes.
Is the city okay with,
is the city engineer okay with those view boxes?
I think that's what they're called out in the public way.
Do we have an encroachment permit?
An encroachment permit will be required
and the city engineer will be reviewing the planters.
Okay. The location and?
Yeah, they're gonna review the location.
We have to keep eight foot clear
at the side walks here. Oh, okay.
Good stuff.
There's a condition of approval for that.
We talked about everything else.
Let me just see here.
Those are my questions.
Thanks.
So now we're going to move on to-
Can I get the clarification on one of those questions?
Yeah.
Regarding the red concrete, was it- did I hear you say, I think I heard you saying,
if you remove some of it, remove all of it?
Or-
For me, I would say it's all or nothing.
Okay.
We're either- we're either-
In my mind, there's two ways to go.
We either follow along with staff's recommendation to put planting there, or we take the tree
grade out and fill it in.
But I think if you go start tearing concrete up, you're going to end up with an even worse
patch in my mind.
I wouldn't be supportive of the idea of squaring it off.
I just think it would be worse.
you certainly can't match the red it would come out that red is faded you
never match it so next up commissioners comments right public comments public
comments still getting a hold of this there's no public here is there anybody
in the virtual realm
excellent so now we move on to Commissioner comments so let's begin
All right I'll start with a building. I actually like the building in one
color because of what you're trying to do to make it all sleek and everything
and I think by adding that secondary color up at the cornice detracts from
that from what you're trying to do to smooth it out and everything so I would
actually prefer going with with the variation that you're proposing. I do
think I'm not in agreement with the corner treatment, certainly not with the
the running bond or whatever. I think it needs to be what's shown in on the
graphics right now, the stack bond, but I do agree that it should be a smoother
tile rather than a heavy block element. The whole issue of patching by the entry
and everything and then from what I observed out there with the curb
cracking and the uplifting sidewalk I'm just wondering I mean I know you're
trying to save money and everything but it may be you know that whole corner
just has to be jackhammered up and re-poured. I think there's just way too
too many patches and that to really make anything work.
And then when you throw in that you want to remove the entry
planners, and you've got to repair that.
I'm just thinking probably about 20 feet back on either side
around that whole corner.
And then again, if that's the case,
again, throw some color in and make it work with your entry,
too.
Wall Street has a history of trying to make the sidewalk
more pedestrian friendly.
I don't know if this is outside that zone or not,
or we're requiring the pavers or not.
The planners, again, my concern is,
and whether we can condition it or not,
is I don't object to what you're trying to propose.
I don't have too much faith in the success of that coming back
six months or a year later.
So I'd want to, if we could put some sort of condition
to ensure, whether it's a six-month review or something,
that the plants are living, not just living,
but thriving and adding to the building.
And they're just not two or three little plants
that look like weeds out there, which I suspect,
on your proposal, might happen.
Minimum landscaping to what you have, I think,
needs to work and provide some nice public color and so forth.
So I'd like to see some sort of condition that ensures that.
I'm OK with no landscaping at the front.
I think what you're trying to do and the way
this whole building is, I don't know
how much we would gain by keeping those planners
in the entry and the whole clean look of the building
in this particular case.
I tend to come down with you to open it up a little bit.
as far as the landscaping on the cutouts.
And again, this kind of goes back
to what you're going to do with sidewalks and everything.
But I agree with removing the trellis.
But again, I think you're going to have some little accent
vertical plant.
That's not really going to keep people away
from your building.
Might add a little bit of color through it.
But I say that only in that I think
that's the lesser of two evils than your proposal
of just patching.
I agree with my fellow commissioners
that just taking out the planters
and trying to infill with concrete
doesn't fit with your overall theme.
And again, I understand you're trying
to cut costs and everything.
But again, looking at this in its entirety,
some things that just scream, you got to take care of.
And I think this is one.
I don't think you can just say we're
going to remove the landscaping and patch it.
I wouldn't be in agreement with that.
I like your mural idea.
I would be in favor of that, and those are my comments.
I go next.
Mine are very similar.
I prefer the stacked bond.
Thank you for giving me that lingo.
I don't feel the need for the additional color at top.
I think that the patching of the planted areas
will look really funky and noticeable.
I wonder if maybe, again, I hate to add additional costs,
but you could take the columns and maybe extend
the improvements of the concrete out in an element that
relates to the sidewalk.
I think the improvements beyond that are fine.
I like getting rid of all the tiles and stuff.
I think that does clean it up.
I think opening up with no planting on the edges is fine.
It does allow more light in.
And I appreciate that you're proposing
planters along the sidewalk so that it still
allows there to be some kind of green and pedestrian
experience.
Thanks.
OK.
I was not on the commission on the original plan approval,
but it looked a little busy.
So I think you're going in a better direction.
All my comments are meant to help what you're doing line up
with that contemporary modern look
that your client is trying to get.
So I do like the newer design much better.
It's more simple.
And I do agree with my fellow commissioners.
The second color on the top corn is probably detracts
from what you're trying to do.
I like the monotone as well.
Let me just say, I'm really happy to see
all those pieces of metal and trellis
and everything pulled off of that building.
I think, cheers for getting rid of all that and thank you.
On the tile, I also prefer,
I think you called it stacked bond.
I like the lined up vertical.
Seems like in this up here.
I think that with a smooth tile would go along
with what I think you're saying your client wants.
Another interesting comment, thank you
for the revised elevation showing those pop-outs.
Frankly, I think it would look better without those.
just completely flat above the top windows
between the columns.
Like you see in the rendering here, this picture,
I think that would look a lot better than leaving the,
I know there's extra costs there
and probably they're not gonna pull those out,
but I just felt compelled to say
I think it would look better without those there.
Yeah, my big worry, essentially,
is the treatment of the semicircle planter areas.
I think I hate to see that look like it was an afterthought
compared to the energy going into the building itself.
Even the planters are nice and contemporary.
And then you have these, they'll be like eyesores
as you walk along the sidewalk and look at the building.
So anything you can do to make that
not end up looking like a afterthought or an eyesore
would be greatly appreciated.
And then finally on the signs,
I know we normally prefer halo lit,
but these will be channel lit,
and I think that makes sense
because there's nothing behind these signs
to have the halo light reflect off of.
So I think lighting it the way you plan on doing it
makes sense.
Those are my comments, thanks.
I think we've captured a lot.
I mean, I think before we get into it,
everybody's mentioned this concrete.
Could we maybe go back and look at that existing photo
of what those half moons look like somehow.
I think we need to figure out what we're asking here, so.
And it's not us to come up with the solution
for these folks, but are we saying then,
if you look at that lower right-hand corner,
that all of that semicircle would come out
and it would be squared out.
Presumably that, if it were me doing it,
I would take it to the curb.
Is that kind of what we're asking for?
Well, I kind of suspect when the engineers go out there,
they're gonna say that for the sidewalk anyway
from what I observed, you know,
the damage that's on the sidewalk and the curb anyway.
I don't know how far back or how much of the sidewalk.
So is that something that the city engineer would do sometimes
is actually require the tenant to replace the whole sidewalk?
Well, I'll go back to what I said earlier
Regarding the public realm, the Design Review Commission
can and should make recommendations on conditions
for improvements to the public realm,
but I think it ultimately would be up to the city engineer
on what it looks like in the extent.
Okay, and isn't the planner in the public realm?
Isn't this the semi-circular thing in the public realm?
I believe so.
All right, what else can I say?
I mean, I'd say go back to the rendering, I guess.
I mean, I think, like has been said,
I think I prefer this color scheme to the one that
was presented today.
I don't like the color band on top.
I'd rather have it be monolithic.
But I think, and like the others,
I feel like the stack bond is going to look better.
And frankly, I think I like this brand.
I think it's more consistent with the brand.
The tile doesn't bother me.
I mean, I think I've done these designs myself.
I mean, you want a tile that's a natural material,
so you want that natural material to come through.
If you try to make it all monotone,
there's going to be absolutely no visual interest whatsoever.
But the thing I wonder is, and I think Commissioner Killian
said this I think you know for me I'd like to see that tile hanging up there
I'd like to see it grounded I mean is there a possibility that the columns on
either side of that entrance the tile could be run down that way because I
think it would to mark the corner better than this it just kind of bothers me
that it's hanging up there with with no base in a natural material like that I
I mean, I'd say the signage to me is fine.
It's consistent with the brand.
I think it kind of surprises me that there's so little of it.
I mean, the only place you can see this sign is,
and this is an unusual thing for design commissioner
to say, I know, but the only place
you're going to see it is from the street,
driving in one direction.
You're not going to see it on Cypress.
You're not going to see it coming in the other direction.
You'll see that it's the kitchen bath store.
That's it.
So there's a missed opportunity there,
but you're not asking for it, so there's
nothing for us to review.
I really like the way that you guys are using the storefronts
in the way and not shying away from that.
The transparency, you can see the product.
That's what storefronts are for, is they're a show-off product.
You're not covering them up.
You're not blocking them out like so many do.
I think it's going to be good.
It's good for the people walking down the street
and it's gonna be good for people understanding
what you do, so congratulations on that.
I mean, I'd say the only unique comment I'm making
is really, I think those corners should be grounded.
That's my recommendation.
I think that's it.
Any other comments?
I would just add I was listening to your,
what you were saying about the tiles,
smooth versus the natural.
the, at least when I've looked at the product inside the store, they do have a lot of smoother
products, but it has a lot of visual variation. So that's kind of more what I was thinking
of when I was talking about smooth. I just wanted to clarify, I didn't mean a, didn't
have to be a monotone tile, but a smoother surface seemed like it would fit better.
Yeah, I mean, if you look at it, let me see the tile for a second.
You know, the problem, and I face this all the time,
because I have many of these colored boards in my office,
and I present them to people, is this tile is not
meant to be looked at like this.
It's meant to be looked at from where you're sitting.
From where you're sitting, if I make that one color,
it's just going to look like paint.
And at that point, you may as well just paint it.
If you're going to go invest money in a product like this,
you want to see the depth of it, so I think... I think on a tile you will see
the sheen, the sun shining off of it, and I think it's gonna give it that kind of
glossy, more of a sophisticated look where I don't think you're gonna get
that off of this tile. It's gonna absorb the light and everything, and again in my
mind, the sleekness and the, you know, the contemporary look, the tile to me just,
you know, does that better, and again it addresses a little bit more of rather
they're having this upside down stone element hanging out there
with no visual base to it?
Well, I look at it inversely, I'd say embrace the fact
that it looks like stone and give it a base.
That's how I look at it.
And this is their color, right?
This is their product, their color.
This is what they like on the storefront.
I don't have any problem with that.
I mean, that's part of their brand.
They're being very subdued with their branding in other ways.
don't have an objection to it. Well I think we need to come to some sort of
terms on the sidewalk issue. You know if the engineer says no the sidewalks fine
you know I think we ought to give clear direction if that's the case are we okay
with leaving that red banding around or not I'm not so I would like to if we can
come to some conclusion one way or the other so that you know first of all the
applicant has clear direction but we know what we're getting and we're not
just leaving it up to a three or four factors that may or may not happen I I
got an idea and maybe this is too funky but you know you want to put those
planners out there why don't you just put the planners over these tree
up against the building. Is that? Is this a prime candidate for a little subcommittee
kind of thing like we used to do in the past like where we've given some
feedback and we don't want to sit up here and try to solve it and design it
we want to allow the design team to do that and so we've given those
parameters and then we say can we see it again with a small group and approve it
based on that? Is that an option? This just feels like one of those. That is an
option I would be supportive of that I was actually thinking about that too it
might be nice to see a sample of the paint color on the wall Charles and
Casey seems like a good subgroup but I don't want to exclude others like our
esteemed chair if they so desire just I think I trust you and feedback and so
maybe just a quick pass and it doesn't have to be a formal meeting and we you
know we agree on who can review it and trust each other's ability to do that.
Okay there are there are a number of issues so we to reach consensus on those
issues that that the applicant could go study if a subcommittee is part of the
motion and and you know I'm not sure what the motion would be but it would
include a subcommittee it sounds like. Okay. All right so we've got paint color
It looks like paint color is an issue, but it seemed as if one paint color was favored.
Yeah.
Yes.
The tile, smooth stacks, it sounds like everybody liked the stack pond.
Yes.
But we're conflicted on whether it should be smooth or not.
Yes.
Okay.
Let's see.
Let's see, the signs seem to be okay.
Yes.
Yes.
I'm trying to stay off the sidewalk
until I get the building done.
There was also a discussion about grounding the tower
from one commissioner.
Is there a consensus of the Design Review Commission
for the applicant to study that?
I would suggest marrying that to the discussion
about the tile. So Commissioner Killian has said and I think others said that
they'd like to see it more smooth because it it appears to be a floating
piece of stone. So I think one idea would be you either use a more a more
model I'm going to say a model with a color so a phase color and that's that's
that's one option. The other option is use this color and ground it. But come back with
whichever option you choose. So those two things are married to me. Am I correct in
saying that?
I would agree. I would go with that.
Okay.
Sure. What?
Well, I'm not quite sure how to round that out. So it's either it's either it seems that
there's consensus on smooth tile, but that was prior to the use of the tile that's proposed
and grounding it maybe it's if that's even possible the columns have to
support that design yeah that's a the chair would ask anybody object I'm
speaking nope nope go for it so I'd really like to make a case for the
proposed tile that we've chosen this is what the client has chosen what they
want to highlight I don't think a super smooth tile next to the stucco which is
rough is necessarily gonna look better and I don't think that you're gonna
pick up on all of the variations in the tile up there and I agree with what Mr.
Newsom said about you know wanting to have some visual variation this is gonna
be a huge block face, right? So I don't, we don't want it to be a shiny cube, but I think
where you guys have taken us and where I agree with the stack bond, that kind of keeps it
organized enough in terms of being able to use a tile that has a slight texture to it.
it sounds like you're gonna come back could you get larger samples of this
tile yes and also get this this is this is not this is a printed get get like
some real brush outs of the paint colors so bring those back because it's it's
hard to see particularly in this room it's hard to see what's proposed but I
I would suggest, I suspect that when folks see the larger samples and see this real color,
I don't think that's a great rendition of that color probably.
I'm guessing it's probably better, but I think that would kind of bring everybody to more
ease.
So just when you come back, bring a brush out and bring at least one full piece of this
tile, maybe two if you can carry them, to get some comfort about how consistent the
product is. Sometimes you get these these pieces and you know there'll be
color variation across the piece. I don't I don't think that's what this looks
like but I think that's part of the concern. Another option that might work
is is face the planners with the same tile. So again you continue that where
that might help ground it a little bit. That's what we're proposing. It is the
same style. I'd write it as of some sort of a white. So it is the same tile. Yes.
and planners okay. I would be willing to give up on that in I think the most
important thing for cleaning this up is this whole sidewalk issue and all the
banding different colors so I am willing to concede on that your tile on the
building. They were negotiating here so to speak but I think it's important you
know that red doesn't fit in with anything and the cutting and even the
entry I think it just needs to be cleaned up we would need one more
concession on the smooth tile to wrap that up I will concede okay let's see so
let's let's let's is there is anybody gonna miss the plants that are in the
semi-circles no okay so so losing the landscaping there isn't the issue it's
what to do with the concrete and the hole, okay?
Yep, what's left behind.
Okay, so I would say that we would add a condition
if the commission would allow me, please.
City engineer to review street trees, grates and sidewalk
and require replacement where there are no grates
and or the sidewalks are significantly lifted
or damaged where it would be a pedestrian hazard.
And we can do a version of that
And that was to your point, we can do a version
of the same thing for those semi-circles.
I feel the same way.
I don't think we want this applicant
to be settled with replacing the entire sidewalk.
But strips of it might be necessary to make it look right.
Am I getting the right flavor here?
Which would include all of the red concrete.
Yeah, the red concrete happens at the corner,
extended out to the curb at the whole base of the building
and at the planters.
So how?
I guess I didn't mean at the entry.
I was just thinking.
Let's look at the photo.
So I'm going to throw this out there.
So if all the red were to go away,
and you were to accept the transition line where it was,
and they were to come back with, take it out,
come back with a lamp, black, gray, concrete,
The semicircle would remain, but the color would be gone.
Is that something that'd be close enough?
I mean, the semicircle is kind of funky, I know.
I feel like I just want to ask them to study it.
They hear that we don't like the semicircle,
we don't love the red.
What are some feasible solutions that they're
going to pitch based on including the feedback
from the engineer?
And then we just have to decide, right?
because I don't know the answer.
I mean, if I were trying to rationalize that
because I've been in his boat, I mean, another idea would be,
I mean, if these are their product,
these planters are their product, right?
I mean, do they have other round products?
Could they?
Yeah, but you could, maybe you could clean the whole thing up
by putting a planter there in the scheme that you want.
You know, there's a few.
They're not going to hear him.
I mean, I think that could be an idea, putting a round planter
there, it could be an idea that's proposed.
I think you're just, I just want you to hear from us.
We don't think patching that semicircle will look good.
And we don't love the red.
So whatever that solution, I think
we'd be open to see what that solution would be.
I don't know that we can approve that in this moment.
we'd have to see what it looks like and what's in it.
And we're not going to tell you exactly what to do, right?
So that might be something to follow up with a subcommittee,
is how that whole thing gets cleaned up.
And then I would just further suggest,
if you're going to study a round planter there,
you might as well study a square or rectangular one
that covers that.
To me, the circles just don't fit
what I think your client's trying to do.
Yeah, so their model was to have very crisp open, anyway.
I don't know how the city ever agreed for that red,
before my time.
So how about this?
Applicant to study a solution to develop
and or remove the rounded and graded area,
the rounded and graded area,
the rounded and tree, the landscape graded areas
at the columns of the base of the building.
Does not preclude removing of all red concrete,
but does not require.
Right, that works for me.
Okay, okay, and that could be, yeah.
I object to the last part of not requiring,
my whole issue is the red and the patching.
I don't wanna see that.
so I don't care what solution they come up with,
but I don't want to see a solution saying we can't do it.
We're going to keep the red concrete.
When I say all of it, I meant the entryway.
The lower picture on the right, you know,
they're removing the landscaping and leaving that.
That's not acceptable to me.
Reread your statement.
Sorry.
The last part of it.
OK.
Study a solution to develop a removal of the rounded and graded
planter areas, does not preclude removing all red concrete,
but does not require removal of all red concrete.
So that works for me because when I hear it,
the red we're seeing on the bottom right corner
may remain like at the base of the building,
which I don't love, but if that ends up meeting to remain
and they're just treating the semi-circle, I might not cry.
At the front, if that ends up not getting replaced,
I would be impressed because I feel like those planters
are gonna have something underneath,
but if it doesn't get replaced, I won't cry.
The part that bugs me the most is the semicircle.
So I think the way he's phrased it,
if some of those solutions allow a bit of that red
to remain and they're treating it well, then it's okay.
But I think we kind of reserve the right to be like,
well, no, that solution you've proposed
isn't handling the issue, right?
Can the commission reach consensus on that?
Yeah, I'm comfortable,
because I think the subcommittee knows the direction
that we're going through.
I can be supportive of that in so much as I'm trying to be sensitive to the
costs. But not in lieu of leaving a lousy design there. Right. So I'm on board with
that. Okay, sounds like you got consensus on that. Is that a 4-0? Three and a half to one
half? Three and a half, doesn't matter. All right, let's see, and we also wanted to talk
about the did we do that already about the planters a guarantee guarantee the
life of the plants and the new planters I don't know how you know there's a city
you know plant cop that goes around and make sure the things are flowering or
not but I just don't want to see these dead not replaced six months from now
and well we do have a standard condition and I don't believe it actually made
this resolution but we do have a language that that requires the you know
the landscape areas to remain in a weed free and condition and we can also put
it like a guarantee on it for one year and whereas we could you know and then
it just becomes we don't want to become another code enforcement issue but I
think whatever standard should be should be enforced at least I mean is it
Yeah, my suggestion would be to at least add that standard condition.
Yes.
Okay.
Yes.
I will drive by in a year and check it out.
I think we have a volunteer from Commissioner Killian to help code enforcement out with the
planting issues.
I walk past her all the time, I'll just pull the leaves.
Only if he does them all.
Is that as clear as mud?
Well, I think we're going to, were we going to entertain a motion?
Now, what about the mural?
Did you address that?
The mural is, is, is, is kind of separate.
Okay.
Yeah.
I'm not, I'm not sure how the processing of that would work.
Okay.
But I can say this about that.
It would not be public art.
It would not be in the public art program,
and it's only public art is subject to the Design Review
Commission's review for locational purposes.
So it's going to be a painted building.
Excellent.
So we don't have to talk about that, OK.
I'll make that as a motion, what we just discussed.
And what is that?
It's what Chip said.
I think the motion would be to approve the project with the new condition to form a subcommittee
of commissioners case in Krelling unless their terms are up than to be reconsidered to discuss
not paint, but discuss the tile and grounding of the tower and study a solution, the language
I had read study the solution for the red concrete and the and also to add the other condition, which would be
Regarding the public realm city engineer to review street trees greats and sidewalks and require replacement where there are no greats and or sidewalks
Or where they are significantly lifted or damaged
Okay, or
Does that sufficient and to add the standard about the?
Maintenance of the landscaping is correct. Okay. Yes, that's good. I can second it
Vote
Vote commissioner Killian. Yes, mr. Case. Yes
Vice chair curling. Aye chair Newsom. Aye
Motion carries for a vote. You have to know the simpler of a project the longer we take
Always true
All right, so next up
What's up announcements?
Commissioner considerations
This portion the agenda is for items that are not required to be public you knows
But we're a formal staff presentation question and answer period public input or discussion among the commissioners is helpful
We have any such
Considerations none does staff just a couple of items one would be the next
Regular scheduled meeting on June 21st would be canceled
Items would have been staff reports of packets would have been due to me today and there weren't any so we were not gonna
However, we do have some items lined up for a July 5th
Meeting which is the day after the 4th of July and I just want to get a roll call on who may or may not be here
I will not be here. I should be here. I should be here. Yeah I think I'm gonna be
here. Rolling the dice. Well there's also Commissioner Valia hopefully.
Can we have some fireworks, maybe some hot dogs?
Fourth of July, actually.
No, okay.
Okay.
Let's see.
I think that's all I had.
Okay.
So thank you for that.
Commission member and staff reports or announcements.
I think we just did that.
Nothing else?
Adjourned.
Woo.