Good evening and welcome to the March 4th regular meeting of the three, the fifth.
It's the March.
I am.
Okay.
Can you hear me now?
Can everybody hear me now?
That's because I was talking quietly.
Okay.
So, can you hear me now?
All righty.
We'll just keep on with this.
Welcome to the March 5th, 2020, for a regular meeting of the Walnut Creek City Council.
Will you please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance?
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for
which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Thank you.
call the roll. Councilmember Francois? Here. Councilmember Silva? Here. Councilmember
Wells? Here. Mayor Pro Tem Darling? Here. Mayor Haskew? Here. As some attendees may
be participating in their first Walnut Creek City Council meeting, I wanted to
welcome everyone and talk briefly about the public comment process. For each
agenda item, there will be an opportunity for the public to comment on that item.
Thus, if you desire to speak to an item on the agenda this evening, please hold your
comments until the City Council considers that item.
Additionally, we have a section on the agenda titled Public Communications, which is for
public comments for items not on the agenda.
Any comments during public communications should not relate to an item that is on the
agenda this evening.
with section 9.5 of the City's Council Handbook, 30 minutes will be initially allocated for
public communications on items not on the agenda. Additional time for public communications
for items not on the agenda will be provided at the end of the open session of the meeting
if necessary. If you desire to provide a public comment, please complete a speaker identification
card and line up behind the lectern at the appropriate time.
Wait your turn and then when you approach the lectern please state your name and city
of residence for the record.
You will have two minutes to address the city council.
Please keep in mind that this is a city business meeting.
The city has adopted rules of decorum to ensure that the meetings are conducted effectively,
efficiently and that all members of the public have a full, fair and equal opportunity to
be heard.
The City Council handbook outlines decorum expected in the City Council chamber and can
be found on our website.
All remarks should be addressed to the City Council.
Please do not use threatening, profane or abusive language which disrupts, disturbs
otherwise impedes the orderly conduct of a council meeting. Again,
each speaker will have two minutes to make your remarks. Written comments
submitted and received up to two hours before the meeting have been posted on
the website for public review and are included in the meeting record but will
not be separately read into the record. If I could, Dan Buckeye, City Manager,
welcome everybody. It's nice to see such a great turnout. We actually have so many
folks. We are beyond the capacity for the room which creates a fire code issue. So
for those of you that are standing along the back, we can't have folks standing
along the back. We have a couple options. There are some seats. You're certainly
welcome to grab any of the open seats. The other option is to wait in the lobby
area. This is broadcast into the lobby. You can listen and attend and participate
that way and come in to speak when you're called at that point in time. We
also have up on the third floor right by the elevator an overflow room that will
be broadcasting this both with audio and visuals. So I ask if you are standing in
the chambers in the back to either take a seat or move to the lobby or move to
the third floor so we can operate in accordance with the fire code and do so
safely. Thank you for your consideration and thanks for being here. Also city
manager I have been reminded that the light switches for this room are by the
door and inevitably somebody leans on it and turns off the lights so anytime
you're around there please give it a little space before you and don't lean
on them. Okay, next item on the agenda is a proclamation for the American Red Cross
Month, and I believe there is somebody here who will be receiving it. I'm going to read
the proclamation from here and then present it to you, and then you will be able to speak.
So hang in there, please. All right, whereas March is America Red Cross Month when we recognize
the compassion of people in Walnut Creek
and reaffirm our commitment to care for one another
in times of crisis.
Whereas, this generous spirit is woven
into the fabric of our community and advances
the humanitarian legacy of the American Red Cross founder,
Clara Barton, one of the most honored women
in our country's history, who nobly dedicated herself
to alleviating suffering.
Whereas, people have counted on the American Red Cross
for the information and the skills they need
to be safe at home, at work, at school, at play,
training people in life-saving skills
such as CPR, first aid, fire prevention, and water safety.
Whereas, with 1,032 volunteers in Contra Costa County,
the American Red Cross assisted
and responded to 115 disasters.
And through our Sound the Alarm program,
the American Red Cross installed 583 smoke alarms,
making 205 homes safer,
and trained 577 individuals and families about fire prevention,
and then trained 617 youth through the Pillow Case Project
and Prepare with Pedro.
There's only two more, hang on.
Whereas Contra Costa County residents donated
nearly 16,736 units of life-saving blood,
hosted 538 blood drives and trained 6,522 citizens
in first aid, CPR and AED and 3,803 in water safety
and 756 military members and their families
received support and services,
and humanitarian aid was provided internationally.
And whereas we hereby recognize this month of March
in honor of all those who lead with their hearts,
serve the people we need,
and we ask everyone to join in this commitment
to strengthen our community.
Here's the part you were waiting for.
Now, therefore, I, Luella, has you,
mayor of the city of Walnut Creek,
on behalf of Walnut Creek City Council,
do hereby proclaim the month of March,
American Red Cross Month, in the city of Walnut Creek,
and encourage all citizens of Walnut Creek
to reach out and support its humanitarian issue, mission.
New record, is it?
Okay, thank you so much for your service,
and I'm on my way to deliver the proclamation.
Thank you, Mayor.
You read my speech.
Thank you, Mayor, City Council members.
My name is Stan Massey.
I'm a Red Cross volunteer.
And I'm currently also the chairperson
for the Contra Costa Leadership Council,
which is made up of many county partners
that we work with on a daily basis.
I'm honored to accept this proclamation
on behalf of the Red Cross.
So our mission wouldn't be possible
without the community heroes who are our Red Cross volunteers.
During our annual Red Cross month celebration in March,
we honor their commitment to support individuals and families
in need.
And on someone's darkest day, be the beacon of hope.
Today, our work is powered by over 90% of our volunteers,
along with generous financial and blood donors, community
partners, and people trained in vital health and safety skills.
Our Red Cross volunteers are on call 24 hours a day,
seven days a week, to respond to large disasters,
apartment fires, and home fires.
And along those lines, we sell smoke alarms
on an as-needed basis.
But then every year in April, throughout the region,
we do a sound the alarm event, which
you read in the proclamation.
And this year, Contra Costa is going
to be the host city or the host county for this event.
It'll be on April 6.
It won't be in Walnut Creek, but it conquers the host city.
But everyone's invited to come out and help install smoke alarms.
So if you're willing to do that or would like to do that, it's a great fun event.
I would encourage you to do that, April 6.
We are proud to serve our community through several programs and
services year round with the help of generous volunteers.
The Red Cross holds blood drives across our county each day where the blood
donors roll up a sleeve to help patients in need.
And I will say in Walnut Creek, Rossmore is probably one of our biggest donation sites.
They have had numerous blood drives there, so we really thank the citizens of Rossmore.
So in Contra Costa County, we've worked to expand our education and outreach efforts
to increase blood donations from African-American and Latino donors.
It is simple to make an appointment at redcrossblood.org, and we encourage you to do that.
We're also committed to serving our military families with their emergency situations including
financial assistance and emergency communication services.
We also have assisted families in reconnecting with their loved ones around the world through
the restoring family links program.
This is a little-known program that a lot of people don't know that the Red Cross performs,
but it's a really vital service and we have a lot of vets throughout the county.
And this is a program we're going to be expanding more and more of this year.
There is also a great emergency Red Cross mobile app, which is free.
Just go to Red Cross, go to the App Store and download it.
It's got all kinds of good things on there about saving lives, performing hands-only
CPR, et cetera.
So on behalf, and this is shorter than the proclamation, on behalf of the American Red
Cross, we thank you for this proclamation, but most of all, we would also like to thank
you and many of your city staff members who have worked closely with the American Red
across over the years to be better prepared as a city for all types of
emergencies and disasters. So once again thank you for honoring us with this proclamation.
Thank you. Before you go let me check with the council and see if there's
anybody who has any questions or comments. Mayor Pro Tem.
Just wanted to say thank you for everything you do. A regular blood donor down at Pleasant Hill
and for any of you that are thinking about doing it the people there will take very good care of
you and you can just get in and get out and feel really good about yourself afterwards.
and you get doughnuts.
And you get Girl Scout cookies this time of year sometimes.
That is big.
Councilmember Silva.
I would like to reiterate thank you
to your volunteers and your organization for what you do.
One of the most consequential moments I ever had
was that we were on the East Coast in New York,
my husband and I. It was the end of August.
And a hurricane was barreling up the eastern seaboard.
New York was dead.
there was not a person on the street at 9.30 on a Saturday morning when we got to Newark
hoping to get a rental car because we couldn't get an airplane home.
I was in line with numerous, I mean dozens and dozens of American Red Crossworkers who
had been transported in by the airlines to deploy themselves into these communities in
anticipation of the hurricanes.
And that's little-known work that I think people don't realize that you do, that you
come from other parts of the country to help even in advance so thank you thank
you thank you you're welcome thank you for that comment during the Maui fires
we actually deployed 40 people from Contra Costa County to go over to Maui
for two three weeks of time we also deployed probably five people from the
county to go to Guam when those hurricanes hit so yes that's a vital
part of what we do just quickly say again thanks I did some fundraising back
in the day for American Red Cross and it's one of the most valuable fundraising efforts I ever
put into it. People actually thanked me for calling them, which I don't often get when I
help with fundraising. Thank you very much. You're just nodding your head. Wholeheartedly,
thank you sir for what you and your organization do for our community and so many communities
around the country and the world and people are in dire need. Red Cross is there, so keep up the
the great work. Thank you. Thank you. Next on the agenda is another one of the
things that make us very happy and it's the taking of the oath of office to our
newly appointed commissioners and I'm turning this over to the city clerk and
and the assistant. If we can please have the 11 new commissioners come to the
center. If you could face me if we can line up one line. All right if you could
please raise your right hand and repeat after me I state your name do solemnly
swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and
and the Constitution of the State of California, against all enemies, foreign
and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution of
the United States and the Constitution of the State of California, that I take
this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion,
and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties upon which I'm
about to enter. Congratulations. So if you can all swing back this way and I'll have you introduce yourselves.
Hi everyone, I'm Steven Kwok. I'm an auditor with the County and Contra Costa Planning Commission.
Hi, I'm Molly P. Klop, a retired health care leader, board chair of Trinity Center of Walnut Creek, a proud Walnut Creek resident, and
soon to serve on the Planning Commission. So thank you very much.
Hi, my name is Netzina Tesfay. I'm an illustrator and designer
resident of Walnut Creek and a mother of two young children and arts commissioner.
Good evening. Peter Weingarten. I'm a commissioner now with the Design Review Commission. I'm
a proud resident of Walnut Creek and an architect in the state of California. Thank you very
much. Hi, I'm Chris Wong. I'm a biotech professional and I'm going to work on the Board of Appeals.
Thank you. Hi, I'm Sharon Pingstaff. I'm the new commissioner for the Parks, Rec and
Open Space Commission. I'm a resident of Walnut Creek for 22 years. My husband and I raised
our two children in Walnut Creek so it's the honor to be the new commissioner.
Hi I'm Laura Patch I'm a national Sierra Club staff member and I will be on the
Transportation Commission. Hello I'm Peggy Howell and I'm the Walnut Creek
representative to the Board of Trustees for the Contra Costa County Mosquito
and Vector Control District. Good evening Charles Crelling I'm just wrapping up
four years of Design Review Commission and now I'm starting Transportation Commission.
I am the second auditor in the group of folks tonight.
Hi, I'm Harp Preet, I'm a Civil Structural Engineer and I'm going to be on the Board
of Appeals.
Hi, Peter Maniani, resident of Walnut Creek for 27 years, member of the board of the Walnut
Creek Library Foundation and proud to be a new member of the Walnut Creek Arts Commission.
Thank you everybody for thanking our people who have volunteered.
Thank you personally from me and I believe I'm speaking for the whole council and welcoming
you and appreciate your service.
Next on the agenda is the consent calendar.
Does anybody in council wish to pull an item?
Yes, I would like to pull item C. Thank you.
Anybody else?
I'd like to pull item G.
Item G.
Okay.
Okay, all right, all right, we have public comments
for any item that is on the consent calendar.
Would you please come forward?
I'm not seeing anybody come forward.
May I have a motion?
Mayor, we do have a public comment card for item 2G.
I know, I'm waiting for him, but.
So council member Kevin Wilk approached me
before the meeting and asked me why do I like to come
meetings to spread hate, and I told them truth sounds like hate to those who hate truth.
So it's important that we're able to listen.
My website is MissanoNews.com, wanted to talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion.
Three seemingly harmless terms with a dark agenda, let's discuss the history.
In 1950, America was 90% white, and today we are 63% and falling fast.
You are called anti-semi and racist if you mention the Kalergi Plan designed and funded
by Jews for the extermination of whites in America and Europe.
And know this isn't a conspiracy theory, a term created by the CIA after the Kennedy
assassination to dismiss anyone who questioned the Warren Commission.
In 1965, New York, Jewish Senator Emanuel Seller helped pass the Hart-Seller Act.
He was also active in pushing gun control, as is Kevin Wilkes.
As the Jews want to make sure no one has any guns to resist their tyranny, the Hart-Seller
Act opened up America to non-white immigration, we were told it would not affect our demographics.
Well that was a lie. California was 90% white in 1950. Today, 30% of children are white.
That is a decrease of 60% in just 74 years. And, of course, whites are blamed for nearly
all of society's problems because of disproportionate power. Well, Jews control the media, information,
and Federal Reserve and money, so they are the ones with disproportionate power. And
they have two tricks they use to protect themselves from criticism when they are kvetching. Former
Israeli politician and Jew Shulamit Eloni admits that using the Holocaust and
anti-Semitism are tricks Jews use to defend themselves from legitimate
criticism. Whites only make up 10% of the world's population. We are the minority.
The promotion of white genocide by Jewish media politicians, their lackeys and
corporations, needs to stop. There is a proverb, the Jew will cry out in pain as
he strikes you. I'd like to ask where Mr. Massano is from. Mr. Massano, where are
you from. Thank you. All right does anybody else wish to make a comment on
public comments? Yes please come forward. Yes I mean excuse me the consent
calendar. Yeah yeah consent calendar. Yes. Honorable mayor and council members my
name is Samantha Francois. I've been a resident of Walnut Creek for over 23
years. Thank you for our service to our community. Our community does not stand
for hate or intolerance wait wait pardon me we are a business meeting and we
need to keep moving forward and I had to make my voice heard on this point
according to the US Holocaust Museum the Holocaust shows that when one group is
targeted all people are vulnerable the denial or distortion is an assault on
on truth and understanding.
Intentionally denying or distorting the historical record
threatens communal understanding of how
to safeguard democracy and individual rights.
Again, Walnut Creek is a community that welcomes all.
Any effort to undermine our community hurts us all.
Thank you.
No, please, we are a business meeting.
Good evening, City Council.
My name is Meg Honey.
I am a 43-year Walnut Creek resident.
I am the co-founder of Rise Up Against Racism,
a Walnut Creek-based 501c3 nonprofit organization.
I am a U.S. history and ethnic studies teacher
at Northgate High School.
And I want to say unequivocally that the comments
of the previous speaker do not stand
for the values of this community,
for the students who I work with,
or for anybody who is in any kind of invested
leadership in Walnut Creek.
I also wanted to take this moment
to say that at Northgate and throughout the community,
there is active work to ensure that every member of our city
and broader community are affirmed and are uplifted.
I just wanted to provide a couple of examples
of this kind of work.
In Walnut Creek, there are currently
six little free anti-racist libraries
that contain books, uplifting, and affirming LGBTQIA-plus
people, members of the Jewish and Palestinian community,
African-American people, indigenous individuals,
members of the AAPI community, and members
of the disability community.
In my ethnic studies classes at Northgate,
students engage in meaningful work
to actively learn and dismantle systems of oppression
and disrupt racism.
At Northgate this year, we have installed a plaque
honoring Harvey Milk.
We also have enjoyed visits from the Mitzvah Project.
I am actively involved in our Pride Prom organizing,
and students across our community are engaging
in rich community service to ensure that racism
and systems of marginalization are ended.
I am so sorry that that individual continues to come,
and Councilmember Wilk, please know that this is not
representative of the people in this community.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Hi, my name is Pete Bennett. I've lived in this area for 45 years and I didn't
expect the conversation to pop up but I know the racism story very well, Kevin. I
had my black employee murdered in 1982 by a Pittsburgh cop. I had a black man
burned alive next to my house 500 feet from my door in 1979 and my gay friend
was murdered by a Pittsburgh cop in 1988.
That's the tip of the iceberg of what I've been through,
and I've suffered a lot in this town.
You all know that.
You've heard me speak here 50 times.
The only thing that's improved for me
is I live in a homeless shelter.
So this is my website, because I'm
supporting the homeless in the area,
and I'm back on my feet financially.
It's called BayAreaHomeless.com.
And what I'm building is a nine-bay area county website
complete with records for every city, every county,
every possible homeless service you could get.
And then on top of that, I'm gonna put my resume up there
because I'm actually a senior application architect.
I've written databases for Bank of America,
Wells Fargo Bank, all the major firms,
and I ended up homeless.
And I've lost millions of dollars, millions.
And I'm pretty frustrated with all this.
And it's pretty sad to see that happen here today.
You know, I get arrested in Walnut Creek
by officers standing near me.
I've gone through quite a bit.
I've had my nose broken, my fingers broken,
my ribs broken, and I had a guy try to
strangle me to death on the library.
That's a pretty tough thing to go through.
It is, but I'm still alive.
And I'm taking my skills and I'm putting them forward
and a foundation that's gonna help the people
that are in trouble.
You can visit and find out what you can do.
Thank you.
Next speaker please.
Hi, Jill Heller and.
Tim Callender.
Been a Walnut Creek resident for the past 25 plus years
and, well, we have a statement.
We come tonight to stand up against the hate filled rhetoric
from last month's meeting,
which we witnessed through the news
and we've just witnessed here tonight.
This moved us to attend tonight's meeting.
We cannot sit quietly by.
Such expressions of hate must be counted
with expressions of love.
Walnut Creek is our home.
Our neighbors and our families deserve to live in peace,
tolerance, and acceptance.
Thank you, council members,
for keeping our democracy strong.
And thank you for the opportunity to speak.
Are there any other speakers?
Seeing none, I'm bringing it back to council.
May I have a motion on the item sweep?
Move to approve the consent calendar items, A, B, C, D, F, H, E, B, D, E, F, H through
J.
Second.
May I have a roll call vote?
Excellent teamwork.
Mayor Pro Tem Darling?
Aye.
Councilmember Francois?
Aye.
Councilmember Silva?
Aye.
Councilmember Will?
Aye.
All right. We have two items that have been pulled.
Why don't we start with your item, Cindy?
Item C on our consent calendar is adopting a resolution and support of an application
that will be submitted by Resources for Community Development,
which is an affordable housing developer.
That company will be submitting an application to the State of California for funding
that will help the company build a 93-unit affordable housing project for
low-income families in Walnut Creek and we are very delighted to be able to
support it and also support the inclusionary and welcoming process and
thank to all of you for being a welcoming community and I'll move the
item. Thank you I need a second please. Second. Thank you may I have a roll call
vote? Councilmember Silva. Aye. Councilmember Francois. Aye. Councilmember Wilk. Aye. Mayor
Pro Tem Darling. Aye. Mayor Haskio. Aye. Motion carries unanimously. Okay the next item is G and who
wants to... I pulled it. Oh, Kevin. Well I actually pulled the item because diversity equity
inclusivity has been something Walnut Creek has taken a serious approach to
and I wanted to make sure the agenda item was at least mentioned and I'm
gonna ask the city manager to talk about what the item is and it obviously shows
from the first speaker tonight of why it's so important in our community and
because I imagine most people here haven't read the consent calendar or
probably remember what the five priorities are in Walnut Creek but I'm
going to read what the council voted on as one of our top five priorities for
the next two years as it relates to diversity equity and inclusivity and we
voted on keep building on the progress made to further establish Walnut Creek
as an inclusive community that welcomes diversity implement a top DEI
priorities through policies and practices representation on city
committees and commissions training events outreach to underrepresented
communities and partnerships with not-for-profit organizations monitor
internal and external progress against clear measurable goals and this we all
were proud to support we had a task force for two years that I chaired along
with my fellow council member and colleague Matt Francois for the DEI
task force that was wonderful and what we were able to represent bring to the
community and continue to have a welcoming presence in Walnut Creek. The
first speaker who was identified as Ryan Massano who has been reported to live in
Vallejo does not represent the values of Walnut Creek nor would I expect represent
the values almost anywhere else. So with that what I would like to ask the city
managers to do is explain what it is that we are approving on the consent
calendar for this item. Sure. Dan Buckeye, City Manager, and we do have our HR team
if you'd like additional information. But as you noted, DEI has been a top
priority for the City Council for the past four years. You mentioned the
community-based task force. We have an internal team that's focused on DEI.
We've provided training to all of our employees, our council members, all of our
commissioners. We've added more inclusive and diverse events to our program
offerings, and really this contract with Ready Set is to help bring all of those pieces together
in a holistic way, create a comprehensive program, we'll do an assessment of our organization
where we're at today, what we should focus on going forward, and also provide an ongoing
training program with updated, with curriculum that will be updated on a regular basis so
that all employees, council members, and commissioners receive regular training.
Thank you city manager. With that, I will enthusiastically make the motion to approve
this item.
And I'll wholeheartedly second it.
Yeah, Matt.
Thank you, Mayor. So I want to echo Councilmember Wilks comments as a fellow member of the DEI
Task Force, which I was proud to serve on. Just want to reiterate that the first speaker
tonight obviously doesn't represent this community. The five of us who are elected by the people
and Walnut Creek represent this community and we include it, no I'm talking, that includes
a Jewish American and four allies, who prioritized DEI, who formed a DEI task force and invited
local rabbis to celebrate Jewish American Heritage Month which we'll do again this year
and celebrated Black History Month last month. The five of us represent this community and
clearly these comments reinforce that we have more work to do and we are
committed to doing the work because the hatred and the ignorance obviously still
exists and and I wholeheartedly support this item. Thank you. Just to make it
official may we have a roll call vote? Councilmember Wilk? Aye. Mayor Pro Tem
Darling? Aye. Councilmember Francois? Aye. Councilmember Silva? Aye. Mayor Haskew? Aye.
Hi, motion carries unanimously.
The next item on the agenda is the public
communications. I would like to remind the public if you would like to provide a public comment speaker
Identification cards need to be completed and turned into the city clerk. You have two minutes to address the City Council.
Please keep in mind that this is a city business meeting. The City Council has adopted rules of decorum
to ensure that meetings are conducted efficiently and effectively and that the members of the public have a full and fair and
equal opportunity to be heard. The City Council handbook outlies decorum
expected in the City Council and can be found on our website. All
remarks should be addressed to the City Council. Please do not use
threatening,
profane or abusive language with
disrupts, disturbs, and otherwise impedes the ordinary,
excuse me, the orderly conduct of the City Council meeting.
Okay, anybody else, anybody want some time here?
Hi, my name's Amy Moss.
I am a resident of Walnut Creek.
For over 20 years, my children were raised here.
They're both off in college now
and living in other communities.
But we have deep, me and my family,
we have deep roots here in Walnut Creek.
And when I heard about the ugly comments
that were made at the last city council meeting,
I just felt compelled to come
and tell you five council members
how much I appreciate you and the work that you do.
I just wanna say thank you
for representing the city of Walnut Creek
in the way that you do.
I know you all five give a tremendous amount of time
and energy into making this community
the best that it can possibly be.
And I just want to say thank you for doing that work.
It's not easy.
You do not have the choice of tuning out the ugly comments
in the way that I had that choice.
And so you're putting yourself forward.
And again, I just appreciate it.
So thank you.
Thank you.
Anyone else?
It looks like somebody's coming.
Looks like two somebody's are coming.
How you doing, Mayor, city council members?
I'm here to represent the Blue Liners of Northern California.
We're a group of people that support the police.
And we're trying to clean up the reputation of cops.
However, that being said, Walnut Creek
is one of the best law enforcement agencies
in the state.
They have the least amount of police brutality.
And I noticed that you have a Measure O, I think,
where you want to take money from public safety.
That's all bad because a lot of the crimes
are coming out of San Francisco.
There's homicides, retail theft.
And if you look at the statistics,
it's all going up to Sacramento.
It's going to West Sacramento.
There was an incident last week where some cop got a gun
pointed at him, and it was a retail theft.
Retail theft is on the rise.
And it's not just one individual.
It's large groups of people that travel.
And they just seize almost $41 million worth
the stolen items from people like this in the audience.
They don't care who they target.
They'll target you.
This is a very, very bad situation.
So I support these cops.
I travel all over the state to talk
to these different city councils.
You need to support these guys right here in the blue.
And like I said, they're one of the best law enforcement
agencies in the state.
I support Walnut Creek.
I drove two hours to come here.
And I'll drive five hours.
You need to not take money from them.
You need to support them more.
Thank you very much.
Have a good evening.
Before you leave the podium, would you?
Yes.
I just wanted our chief to, our city manager,
to explain how we are allocating Measure O
because I think there's some misperceptions going on.
A significant portion of Measure O
is actually going towards law enforcement.
Yeah, that's right.
It actually came back as one of the top priorities
for the community.
And recently the city council added seven additional
positions to the police department,
including five officers, a crime prevention specialist,
an additional dispatch supervisor,
and is also investing in additional equipment.
for the reasons that you noted because we do believe
that our police department is one of the best,
if not the best in the state.
They are.
Next speaker please.
Hello, Audrey G and hello council members.
And I just wanted to say I've been a resident here
for over 50 years.
I'm a person of color and this community has always been,
always been welcoming and it's just been,
I mean from my experience and growing up
And my father came over from China.
It was open arms from all members.
And I appreciate that the people in the city
are continuing to follow that, even though we're
getting bigger and bigger, that we still
take care of each other, that we still care for each other,
and that we still have in our hearts being a small community.
It's so important to support and lift everyone up,
because then we can be a better community altogether.
I support what you're doing.
Thank you very much for your efforts and all the DEI efforts and thank you.
Thank you.
No, thank you.
I understand.
Is there anybody else that wishes to make a public comment?
Seeing none, we're closing the public comment and maybe we should take a break?
Does anybody want to take a break?
No.
Okay, we're going to move on to the next item.
I did want to say with our commissioners all taking their there's a couple seats down in front if people are still standing in
The back this would be a good time to find a seat because it's gonna go for a while
Okay. All right
The next item on the agenda is council members and staff announcements reports on activities or request
Any closed session announcements madam mayor? There was no closed session and there are no closed session announcements by definition
City manager, I do not have an update this evening
Thank you.
Anybody on Council?
Matt, can I start with you?
Cause you're far away.
Okay, thank you, Mayor.
I serve as the city's liaison to the Chamber of Commerce
and also serve as a representative
to the Chamber's Economic Development Working Group
and attended their February 21st meeting
along with Assistant City Manager, Terry Kilgore.
We had an update from the Diablo Valley Tech Initiative
as well as an update on our economic development plan
and objective city standards.
I was able to proudly tell
the Economic Development Working Group
the direction that the council provided
to streamline the design review process,
and I understand we'll be seeing an ordinance
to implement that work in the next few months,
Along with Council Member Silva,
I serve as the city's representatives
to the Recycle Smart Board,
which is the board that takes care of all your garbage,
recycling and composting needs.
We received a mid-year budget report.
Good news, we're on budget.
And talked about amending the quality service metric
for Republic, which is the company
that picks up the trash and the recycling.
They've not been living up to expectations
and missing routes too often.
And the metric we have now is dependent on people calling
and saying that their route was missed,
which is not an ideal form of measuring it
because some people won't call or they'll get a robo call
that says their trash is not being picked up that day.
So we're looking at improving that
so that we can hold the company accountable
and make sure that we're doing our job,
which is picking up the trash on time and within budget.
I had the pleasure of stepping in for the mayor
at the opening of the McLaren Walnut Creek
showroom grand opening on February 23rd.
That is a new high-end car dealership here in Walnut Creek.
They flew people out from the UK to attend that.
They're very thrilled to be here.
they've already made an introduction to Angela Sway,
our economic development manager.
She's been in touch and the city has let them know
that we're here to help and anything we can do
to help them be successful,
other than buying a $500,000 car, we're prepared to do.
You didn't do that?
No, and I was quite ashamed going back
to my Toyota Prius afterwards.
But they are beautiful vehicles,
So even if you wanna go in and look at the showroom,
I would encourage you to do that.
Then I serve on two other committees for Recycle Smart,
the Franchise Vendor Selection Ad Hoc Committee.
We're in the process of going out to bid
for new contracts for collection services
and post-collection services for our area
and more to come at future updates.
And I also serve as a chair of the Personnel Committee
for Recycle Smart.
We had a meeting yesterday where we talked
about the salary schedule and performance evaluation
of our executive director.
That's my report.
Thank you, excellently done.
Yes.
Thank you very much.
I too serve on the board of Recycle Smart.
And I just wanted to announce to all of you
that as part of our process for securing a new contract
for the coming 10 or 12 years for the pick,
for the collection and processing of the trash,
the recyclables, and the organics,
we are seeking community input.
And so if you go to the homepage of the city's website
and you will find a link to take a survey,
it only takes two, at most three minutes,
but it will ask you what your preferences are
in certain areas and you'll submit it
and you'll be part of the process, so please do that.
Further, two weeks ago, I attended the quarterly meeting
of the Board of the League of California Cities.
Fortunately, we were in the lovely part of the foothills,
and fortunately we were there before all the snow,
so we were able to get home.
We had a conversation about a number of bills
and pieces of legislation that are moving their way
through the legislature.
Heard a report this morning that the legislature
is looking at more than 5,000 bills.
They're going to be quite busy this coming year.
And among the bills that we're keeping an eye on
that we'll need to keep an eye on here, is Buffy Wicks has a bill that basically is not
only going to make the builder's remedy work if you don't have a certified housing element,
but also if they find your housing element is out of compliance.
Now that there's a debate as to what that really means, but, and I did ask some questions
on that.
To build on the comments from the gentleman a few minutes ago, public safety is also very
important to cities across the state and we're advocating actively with the
legislature to on a number of bills that are they're considering related to how
to curb organized retail theft. There's about 20 bills that are in front of the
legislature at this time. We'll hopefully they'll winter themselves down to a
fewer number and then also for the interest of my colleague who is a CPA
and tax accountant and our city manager. There are a number of bills related to
sales tax rebates and how to curb those including one that has been put forth by
Senator Glazer. And next week I will be in Washington DC with the League of
National Cities and as part of a delegation from California to advocate
with the federal government on very important issues related to cities. And
finally I'll mention that the East Bay radio system which is the public safety
radio system for the two counties Alameda and Contra Costa. Forty-three
agencies are all on the same system so we can all talk to well our police and
fire and EMS can talk to each other if there's a very major disaster and we're
recruiting and in the final stages of contracting with and hiring a new
executive director. More to follow.
Councilmember Wilk. Thank you. Well I was one thing that happened over the last
couple of weeks was I was elected and appointed to the California League of
Cities East Bay Division Board of Directors. I look forward to continuing
the important work that we're doing in the city, the region, and on a wider scope.
And I'll just take a, if you'll allow me for a minute to talk about that wider
scope. I've led sessions on standing up against hate and what we can do is
elected officials to stand up against hate wherever and whenever it exists. I'm
I'm extremely proud of that work.
As we've seen from earlier tonight, it's needed.
It's continued to be needed.
Here we are in 2024 and we're still talking about
people that are willing to try to divide
and espouse hate in the community.
I will say that the person from two weeks ago
was from Modesto, the person tonight's from Vallejo.
These are not Walnut Creek residents.
I'm extremely proud of our Walnut Creek residents.
I've lived in four countries.
I've lived in, I don't know, how many places that I can count.
And I came back 27 years ago to move into Walnut Creek
and raise my family because of the welcoming community
that it is.
I've received nothing but support here.
And in the last two weeks, and I wasn't actually
going to mention this until tonight,
but it heartens me to hear the people that spoke publicly
tonight as well in support of welcoming.
DEI is obviously something that's
important and welcoming to all of us as well.
I received hundreds of emails, texts, and comments
in support of me, the Jewish community,
and the support of everybody over the last two weeks.
I received emails from as far away as Washington
and Southern California.
They are aghast that there would be haters that
look to divide and spread hate.
Well, what we're here as a community
is to do what we can in positive ways
to move the city and community forward.
I ran for election 2016 to help make a positive difference
in being not just welcoming, but in working together
so that we can be proud of Walnut Creek
for the next 10 and 20 and 50 years
well after any of us that are sitting up here.
Well, maybe not here at the end,
but they are going to be here.
And that's why I ran.
And that's the kind of support that I've had.
And to see commissioners step up to be appointed
and reappointed and proudly serve their community
as we're all proudly here to do.
This is what we're here for.
It's nonpartisan, it's purely city work.
And for people to come and try to divide
through awful, hateful language
and stand behind our First Amendment
as it being their freedoms
to be able to say whatever they want, yes, they can.
But we as a community can respond to that,
speak out against it and speak for welcoming and that's what I'm proud for
and thank god for my Walnut Creek community that stands for it as well
and that's my comment. Pretty powerful um may we have the
city. Can you? I'll go next.
Um I represent the council on Walnut Creek downtown we had an event at um
Rooted Coffee Shop and they recognized their volunteer of the year who was Mr.
Neil Gershner who many of us know from the planning
Commission. Neil is one of those guys that does stuff for the city. He works
behind the scenes to get Walnut Creek on ice together every year and his wife
has just retired from Walnut Creek PD and they're ready to just move into
retirement so they wanted to recognize him for that work. I represented Kevin at
the Golden Rain Foundation since he couldn't be there. Golden Rain
Foundation did, because they are a similar board, they run Rossmoor.
they wanted to me to convey to everybody here their support in the face of the
comments that had occurred at the last meeting and they had a lot of helpful
suggestions on what to do because they've had to struggle with some of the
stuff themselves along with council member Silva I went to the East Bay
Division of Cal Cities to listen to the legislative folks the deficit in
in Sacramento is currently a somewhat unknown size,
but we are hoping that it does not end up impacting
our programs to help homelessness
and other state funding that we get here in the city.
But we're gonna keep a close eye on it.
And that is my report.
Thank you, that leaves one from me.
I attended the CCTA commission meeting
and it was largely a celebratory
when federal Glover has decided not to run
and he was retiring as a chair of CCTA.
Dave Hudson, who had been an active participant in CCTA,
also is no longer on the board,
and I guess is not running for another term
as city representative.
And Theresa Geringer also,
we got to see her new home via Zoom.
She left us and moved to Seattle, I don't know why.
reminder that in most Sundays, there is a city council member
who will represent the city.
When it's me, it's between the hours at Farmer's Market.
If it's me, it's between the hours of 10 and noon,
never a minute, but more.
I get hungry.
So, and it's a good way to, if you have an issue
that you need to discuss with the city,
it's a good way to let us know what's going on
And sometimes somebody asks a question
that is easily answered,
and sometimes they ask a question
that needs help from the staff.
So, and the staff willingly in most cases
responds to those questions.
So please take that as an advantage.
I represented the city for a meeting of the wee blows.
Those are the boy scouts between cub scouts
and real boy scouts.
and it was just so much fun.
Apparently, their parents had figured out
that I was going to be there,
so they gave the kids hard questions for me to answer.
So try and explain to an eight-year-old what taxes are.
Good thing I was an accountant, all I could say.
I am also, because Theresa Geringer was the chair,
and she has moved away,
I am now the Chair of the Accessible Transportation Workshop,
which is a project under the auspices
of Contra Costa Transportation Authority.
And the workshop was putting together
in Contra Costa County, we have three official just ours
and one Alameda bus company.
And we're trying to find a way to get the elderly
and the disabled on a one ride, one day kind of thing.
And for those, the people that can't afford
to get to medical appointments and that thing,
we're trying to figure out how to fund those things.
So we're putting together a new system to do that.
And this workshop was designed so that we had,
we all were in the same room and we all realized
we were trying to accomplish the same thing.
And I think we made really good progress.
The last thing I'm going to mention is Joy Bound.
Anybody know who Joy Bound is?
Joy Bound, oh, yeah, one hand.
Joy Bound is the former arf that lives in the shade lands.
And they changed their name.
And we went to that celebration a couple of weeks ago.
But I got invited to the groundbreaking.
They're about to put together, they
call it an academy, where they do animal grooming.
And part of the stuff is for the animals, clearly.
That is what is at the heart of Joy Bound.
But they're also going to train young people or older people
who need skills to have a job.
And grooming might be just the thing that they have.
So they're going to take people under their wings.
And when they're up and running, they
will adjust the costs of the animal grooming
to how much the owner of the animal can pay.
So they're trying to be really good citizens
in our community.
That being said, I think we're finished
with this section of the meeting.
And unless we wanna break, I'm not looking at it.
We're going to move on to the next item.
And I believe I'm going to turn this over
to the city manager.
Yes, thank you, Mayor.
And before we kick this item off,
I do need to repeat the message that I shared earlier
in that we do have a large crowd here
and due to fire code reasons,
we cannot have people standing against the walls here.
I apologize.
So if you wanna grab a seat, there are open seats.
There is room in the lobby area right outside here
where you can hear the meeting and still participate.
And we also have room on the third floor
in which this is being broadcast both with video and audio.
So for safety reasons, fire code,
I please ask that anybody standing along the walls,
take a seat or move into the lobby
or go up to the third floor.
And thank you for your consideration on that.
The main one in front of the lights moved.
And then with that, to kick off this item,
just the purpose of tonight's agenda item
is for the council to provide direction
on the schematic design for the joint community
Aquatic Center at Heather Farm Park with a particular focus this evening on the
outdoor aquatics portion. You received an update two weeks ago and provide a
direction relative to the community center and this tonight we're
focused on the aquatics portion. I do want to highlight this is the schematic
design. It is not the final design. There will be much more input sought and
decisions made regarding the design. I also want to highlight for your Council
and for those that are here is that we're going to hear a lot of details
this evening both from our folks I suspect we're going to hear a lot of
detailed comments from the public that are here in person just as we have in
writing and I think you're going to hear ultimately some very differing
perspectives from folks here this evening and one of the challenges I
think the differing perspectives are around different values related to the
future of Heather Farm Park and really while there are all these details what
I'd like to emphasize for your council
is that this is a policy decision
and a financial decision that is before you.
And the policy decision is related to
what is your vision for the future of Heather Farm Park
and how do the different options related
to the pool and aquatic center impact that future
and that vision for Heather Farm Park.
And then secondly, with respect to the finances,
your council has set a budget for this project
and you need to decide whether or not
you'd like to stay within that budget or alter the budget.
And with that introduction, I'd now like to introduce
our city engineer and assistant public works director,
Steve Waymeyer.
Great, good evening, Mayor Haskell
and members of the council.
My name is Steve Waymeyer,
I'm assistant public works director,
and Dan took away a little bit of my beginning
in my presentation here, so.
And you know, it's fitting,
this is my last presentation for city council.
I've been doing this for 22 years,
and so this is my last presentation, yeah.
And it's fitting that it's on the aquatics
because one of the first things
when I started here 22 years ago,
we were talking about Clark pool
and what we're gonna do with Clark pool.
Cause even back 22 years ago, it was deteriorating.
We were looking at the Heather Farm Park master plan
and deciding what we should do with that whole park
and where everything else.
And so it's really fitting
that we are kind of a full circle coming around through here.
So I'm gonna reiterate what Dan said
about what our meeting purpose is here is,
last meeting we went over the building package.
I wanna call it the building package.
And you guys gave us great direction on that.
Our team did a great job presenting it,
and we are moving forward on that like gangbusters.
We have a tight schedule and a budget.
We're gonna meet that, that's our goal.
And so with that information, we're moving forward.
Next week, next council meeting,
we're gonna bring forward to you
to talk more about some other details
on sustainability and some other things.
But other than that, that part of the project is moving on.
And our goal today is to get direction on the pools
so that we can start April 1st
and start moving forward on the pools.
So this is a complicated presentation, like Dan said.
This is a lot of information.
We're going to take a breath once in a while,
ask questions.
Our goal is to all do a presentation on the background.
And we'll stop a little bit there
and talk about, OK, what's the past look like,
and how do we get where we are.
And then Kevin Safin is going to talk about,
what do we actually do with the pool,
and what are we doing right now?
And then our aquatic designer, Dennis Berkshire,
is going to talk about, what is the project that we're
going to propose to give you?
that's the fun stuff and everything else. Once we have that, Kevin's gonna
come back and talk about the Walnut Creek Aquatics Foundation and what
they're requesting and that's kind of what you've been hearing a lot about is
their requests and Dan was saying is different than what staff has
been saying and so we would explain why staff has it and respectfully discuss
what the Walnut Creek Aquatics Foundation is requesting and talk about
what that means and how we can move forward. So once again we're really
looking for direction and in order to stay on schedule on budget we really do
need clear direction here by the end of this meeting to move forward with this.
And so it would be really important if you do make a policy decision like Dan said to
change how we've been going forward and do something different than we're presenting
that's substantially different, it will cause some delays and some additional costs with
the project.
But that's a decision that I totally respect that if that's what you want to do, we can
move forward with that.
So a little bit of the background, and so this is back what I was saying when I first
started in 2002, the very first project I started working on was the Heather Farm Park
Master Plan.
first introduction into planning of public facilities. One of the things I thought was
most unique and interesting about the city of Walnut Creek is that more than half of
our housing is multifamily. And most people don't understand that. A lot of people here
live in their single family home. You have your backyard. You want to get away from the
kids. You got a place to go. But understand more than half of this community lives in
a single family home. And they're our silent majority. But I learned during this process
is that part of our project, our job as staff, is to represent that part. And so that part hardly
ever shows up here because those little people that are nurses, there are workers in our schools,
they're the people who are just trying to make it day by day because they want to live in Walnut
Creek and they love this place. And they need these parks. If you look at Heather Farm Park,
it is surrounded by multifamily home. If you look at Civic Park, it's surrounded by multifamily homes.
And that's why those parks are so important because that's their backyard. That's the way
way they can get away. That's the way they can be seen. So, one of the key things we
came up with when we started the master plan was that we wanted to provide a balance, and
this is actually, council adopted this language, I want you to be very clear, is provide a
balance between active use in the park for sports and passive use, and then provide a
balance between the sports and then passive uses such as picnicking, walking, exercising,
and bird walking. And retaining a balance is really a high priority for the future development.
So that's something that staff is really, you're going to hear the word balance a lot
measure, you're going to get sick of it, but that's the project, the project we're proposing to you
is a balanced project in our mind. So I need to spend a little bit of time to go over the history.
Back in 2010, we were already seeing problems with the Clark pool, and so staff came to council and
said, look we need to take a look at what it's going to take to replace this pool, and that's
our first in addition to Dennis Berkshire at that point, we were just talking about that.
And we did a very in-depth needs assessment, and almost every project I've worked on in my 40-year
career you start off with a needs assessment everyone says what do you
want and you throw everything on a table and you say okay what's that look like
and we did this as a needs assessment and from that assessment we walked away
with four pools two 50 meter pools a tank a playground lots of stuff Dennis
reminds me even when we came up with that a lot of people still weren't
satisfied that was enough water but we came up with this plan and we took a
look at what it costs and there was absolutely no way the city could afford
to one the capital cost of it the maintenance of it and the operating cost
of it so that project got shelved pretty quickly step further down the pool
still not looking very good so council said look maybe there's a way that we
can come up with something out there there's a private there's another group
that can come up and say how can we keep moving forward with our aquatics and so
two groups step forward the YMCA kept step forward and the Walnut Creek
Aquatic Foundation step forward and both of them proposed plans for ways that we
We could possibly have a way that we could move forward with replacing those pools and
the facility.
And the whole goal of that was to reduce the city's cost for that from both, it's capital
costs and operating costs.
Pools are extremely expensive to operate, so the operating costs are a big part of it.
And at the end of the day, the programs that they presented really didn't meet the values
that the city was looking for.
So once again, that was shelved.
In 2015, and trust me this is like Groundhog's Day every time it comes around, in 2015 Council
said, okay, let's hire a professional and see what is it really going to take to make
this thing work.
And their goal was to make sure we had a balanced program, bring in some long-term partners,
make sure we had shared capital investments, and we really wanted to reduce the sitting
operating costs.
I'll step back a little bit.
At this time, maybe even earlier, we had what was called the Blue Ribbon Task Force, which
was we brought in a whole group of private citizens
that said, yeah, Luella's first guy,
that said we really need to look at reducing
the taxpayers' burden on our programs.
And that was really a driving force
for a lot of decisions we were making at that time.
And so we hired this company to come in
and they did a design and also did the economics
of the project and pretty much what they came up with
was that a project that can be economically feasible
for the city of Walnut Creek will be a recreational pool
and a 25 meter lap pool.
those programs that we could put in there,
we could afford to build it,
and they could supplement all the costs associated with that.
The issue with that was it pretty much ruled out
a long term program with our Walnut Creek Aquatic Foundation
of some of the programs they're running.
So they raised their hand and said,
look, if you will, we wanna build a 50 meter pool.
Council came back and said,
we'll pay for half of the 50 meter pool
if you pay for the other half of the 50 meter pool.
And that's how we came up with this $3 million number
you've been hearing running around.
So we took that information,
We said, OK, we're going to build a recreational pool.
And either a 25 or 50 meter pool,
we want to see if the funds are going to come through.
So in 2017, back to the drawing board,
we hired a consultant to come in,
or did a whole process to hire a consultant to come in.
And then at that time, the city hit some real economic issues
at that point.
And we just shelved the project because we
knew we couldn't afford to hire the consultant, let alone build
the project.
We had no funding source.
So here we are back again, Groundhog Day.
So, but the council at that time had agreed and came up with the understanding that really
the project that fit what we needed was a recreational pool and a 25 meter or 50 meter
pool. The grandiose project that we came up with the 2010 really wasn't going to work. So we
really became focused on this whole concept that we're talking about now, recreation and a pool
for lap swimming. Step back again, staff presents the council that look, not only is Heather Farm
Clark pool falling apart, a lot of other facilities really need some help. We have
bridges that are needing issues or have issues and a lot of our community facilities have issues. So
at that point council initiated your parks your future project. All right, everybody following me
here. So the your parks your future project started a couple years before COVID and we analyze
a lot of facilities multiple facilities and the programs there and we looked at what it would take
to replace those facilities and how our programming should change for the future.
And out of all those facilities, we still came back and said, look, Clark Pool is still
our number one priority to get that replaced, and also the community center at Heather Farm
Park.
That was a decision that council made.
So once they said, look, go forward and see what that would take.
So we hired a consultant and we started the conceptual planning between April and January,
and we came up with a plan that you're going to see a little bit later on that was kind
of a plan that said, hey, here's how we think we can accomplish that at Heather Farm Park.
Once we had that in place, then City Council said, okay, let's move forward with the design
process.
And that's kind of where we are right now.
So there is the history and a timeline of how we got where we are now.
So before you start a project, you really got to know what are we doing and what's our
mission and goal.
That's, that's what you got to sit back at.
So back in 2019, we met with our pros commission and came up with this mission.
That was to design a multi-generational community
aquatic facility.
So we know it's important for small kids
to have a kid place to play.
We have the more older kids and grown up adults
like to do the competitive lap swimming.
And then we also need something for elderly people
to get in there and do some exercise and things like that.
So they wanted to have a nice broad program
that we could provide for them, provide
a structural recreation and still provide
for the competitive programming.
And we also wanted to support a family event
place, a social event place, a place
people can gather. So really the need for a balance aquatic
programming was always a driving effort for planning efforts.
There's that word balanced again. And some of the key
assumptions, these are things that council actually adopted in
2023. So we all agree that we're going to replace the
aquatic center and the community center with one combined
facility. And that was going to be located where the existing
community center is, and to replace the two pools with the
three pools at Heather Farm with two pools, and that the
existing things that go on community center and aquatic activities could
still be accommodated there and that any recommendation we have and this is the
key this is what took us past the next level because otherwise this wouldn't
have worked was that we had to have realistic implementable and budget
conscious decisions that we consider both capital and operating budget we
weren't going to have some pie in the sky project that we really couldn't afford
to build or operate this gets this is where the presentation that there's a
lot of information there. I want to talk about Measure O because kind of
following along, beside this was Council saying, look we need funds for some of
these things we've been talking about. We've had some failed measures in the
past. How can we put together a measure that the citizens are going to support?
So the Council went out to Measure O and asked the citizens that they're willing to
have a half cent sales tax to hopefully raise around eleven million dollars a
year to go to all of these projects here. I'm not going to read this, but you can
take a second and read it. I'm going to talk about them a little bit more. So Measure O
purposely had a lot of projects in there and we talked about a little bit
earlier today with some of the public communication. There was a lot of things
that people wanted to see done with Measure O money and Measure O passed.
That's great. I mean it's I just I was surprised it passed. You know we've
done this I've been back and forth so many times with the library and other
things that I was really surprised and it's like hey here we go we really can
do something it was really exciting. And so now what is our commitment on Measure
And this is something I wanted this is the annual commitment that the city staff has set aside for
This project and so that circle is all the measure of funding three-quarters of the funds
Up from measure. Oh have been committed to this project and you see I know we've talked about
7.7 million, but let's all remember when you buy your house
You have a loan payment you have to make and so in order to get these finances ahead of time with this project
we have to get a loan. So we're estimating there's 1.3 million in debt
service. It'll have to be every year from measure O needs to be assigned to
this project. So $9 million of all the money that we 12 and a half million
that we think we're going to get from measure O go to that. So what that leaves
is a three and a half million for the other projects. And as we talked about
earlier, public safety is very huge and public safety has a lots of things. It
could be getting your kids to school safely. It can also be police officers.
There's lots of things that follow that now. Economic development, maintaining
downtown. Our downtown is our economic engine. We know that. We need to keep
that running. Homeless services. Keeping the Lecher Center running. Library
arrows is a big deal. Sustainability and climate action plan. There's a lot of
other things that that three and a half million dollars is set aside for. And one
thing I keep hearing is on this project is, hey, this is a once-in-a-lifetime
project. We should build what we can build. And what's another four to six
million dollars? I think you can see what another four to six million dollars is
from this. Another forty six million dollars is money that we could be spending
on a lot of other things. So the $7.7 million is a significant amount. I was surprised when
council did pass that amount and I think we could build a great project within that funding.
So let's step back as we started to get into design. We set up some design principles for
this and one was once again a balance of recreation and competitive swim uses. And that the facility
will accommodate what has been done at the Clark Swinner before. We want to maximize
our deck space, make sure showers. We wanted to build a really nice project and that's
That's what staff is presenting.
It's a beautiful project.
When I talk to Dennis who designs these everywhere, he's amazed that a city our size can build
a project like this.
So this is going to be definitely a jewel of Walnut Creek if we build what we're showing
here.
Alongside in the background, we had the Walnut Creek Aquatics Foundation who agreed in concept
to raising $3 million.
We put that in a memorandum of understanding so that that is on record, that they will
raise that money as long as we're building a 50 meter pool and a family
recreational pool and they get to provide an input into design which we
have done. Alright so from the your parks your future this is where we
started and this council agreed to with the funding and the basic design
everything we've been doing everything up to date has been based on council
giving us very clear direction that this is what they wanted and so this is the
basics that we started with and then when we were able to hire the
consultants we needed something a little more detailed. This was kind of
more of a blob drawing so that we can take it out to the stakeholders and so
what we designed, and you've seen this before, is this is kind of what the
project is that we took out to the stakeholders. This is the project we've
been running with and that's the basics what we do on our CEQA documents and
everything's been based on this type this project here. Our key stakeholders
that we took it out to, this is a list of them. Some of the key are the gardens at
at Heather Farm Park, the chamber,
Walnut Creek Aquatic Foundation, the Aquabares, the Masters.
We've taken this to a lot of different stakeholders.
And one of our more important meetings
was with the Walnut Creek Aquatic Foundation,
and it was consistent with the MOU.
We got their input from 13 representatives
and they gave us feedback.
And from that feedback, we modified the project
to have these changes to it.
So essentially what we did is we added more lanes
to the project and we increase the deck space.
That's the major things that we did to this.
So that's the background, that's leading us up to today.
Kevin's gonna come here in a minute
and talk about the programs and stuff,
but I think before we move on,
I gave you a lot of information.
If there's any questions you wanna ask now
about the information I provided, specifically about this.
And I wanna tell you,
you're gonna hear about the pool design,
you're gonna hear about some other things,
that's just the background.
And so let's kinda keep it towards the background
questions if you have any right now. I have any questions I believe, I hope
some member Silva does. I don't think you should retire. Well that's a statement.
Would you like to stay? No, okay thank you for your presentation and and the
historical walkthrough I've been here through not as long as you have but
through a lot of what you've talked about and I appreciate you starting with
But really what most people don't realize in Walnut Creek or in the surrounding region
is how much multifamily housing we have, apartments, condos, and townhomes.
And I think it's closer to 60% of our housing stock.
And so that's a different type of family unit that we need to be able to serve in Walnut
Creek.
They're great members of our community.
And you're right, much of that housing is near our parks, whether it's Larky Park or
Civic Park or Heather Farm.
So thank you for bringing it up.
Let's roll back to 2010 and 11, the needs assessment report.
My recollection is that the process was begun much
before 2010, 11.
I think it was begun even in 2008,
because we were talking about pools early on
when I came on council.
Am I correct?
Pools have always been, we'll go along,
we'll have a heater breakdown at the pool,
things have to get shut down.
pools become a hot topic at that point.
And really, that's what was happening,
is the pools were breaking down,
and we knew we needed to do something about it.
We were worried that the health department
might shut us down.
There was lots of things that we were worried about.
So we knew, and we knew how important
that swimming is to this community,
that we needed to do something about it.
So we're constantly, we're working on that.
So I still have my copy of the final report.
I don't know.
I have one over here, too.
We may have the only two final copies in the world.
it acts as a doorstop sometimes in my office.
But it was a multi-year process
and amongst the basic issues I remember it is,
there are a number of parts that they might come up later
but it was really a folk, I could even read the lines
because I found from the report because I found it today
but one of the lines in it was that swimming has changed
and public pools have changed since this one was built
in the early 1970s.
less about flat water and more about family recreational pools. And I'm happy
to read this statement because Dennis might have written it, I don't know. So we
did end up with two pools, a 25-meter competitive or lap pool and a
recreational pool. Can you clarify in 2016 what that really meant? Was it
flat water? What did we mean by recreational pool? It was a place that
had a slide in it, it had other features that kids could play with, it was it was
a play feature type pool. So as we've added more lanes into this latest
proposal that is more flat water lanes and less about the family recreational
portion of it because it is a recreational flat water essentially. With
the design that we're showing now, and we can get into that a little more detail, but
the design we're showing now, flat water can be recreational, especially the way they manage
it now.
If it's less than three and a half feet, where some child can stand in there and play, then
we can consider that water that we can use recreationally.
Once it gets over my head, that becomes something that's not recreational.
You're really tall.
Exactly.
Have a hard head.
And so Karen made the point, one thing I didn't talk about was the replacement of larky that
was part of this phase approach was that we thought we were going to replace it in place,
Clark Swinner, so we rebuilt Larky so that we could use that in the interim.
One thing we did at Larky was we built a lot of deep water, and if you ask Karen, who runs
our programs, the kids all hang out in the more shallow water.
Once you get above three or four feet, it doesn't become that much of a recreational
use.
So actually you raised one of my questions, which is the rebuilding of the Larky pool
we initially at the end of 2014, we're discussing just rebuilding it with the existing, squaring
it off, but not changing the depth, but then we had a request to change the depth so it
could be usable for deep water programming.
Is that correct?
That's exactly correct.
And so that changed, and so it became one of the, why did we do that, why were we willing
to deepen that water at that point in time?
What were we envisioning looking forward for Clark?
Sorry, I was distracting.
So Larky Pool was an opportunity for us to have a facility that could be a stand-in facility
for Clark.
And we needed a place that the Aquanauts could actually do their practicing in, and the Aquanauts
actually gave us some extra funding to make it deeper so that they could use that for
some of their practicing.
When we made that deeper, that's one of the reasons why we did the splash pad, because
We knew we were losing some recreational point,
so we built a splash pad, too, as part of that project,
because the splash pad we knew would bring in revenue.
The splash pad is packed all the time,
is an easy revenue generator that you could ever come up with.
So the splash pad and the deeper part of the,
it was kind of part of a whole,
it's all trade-offs that we were trying to do,
so we needed to have the recreation point.
We also wanted to serve the groups,
the swing groups and stuff, too, at the same time.
Okay, so one of the questions that we've heard
is why did we make a decision, I think maybe 2021,
the pros commission,
the Your Parks, Your Future committee staff
and the council eventually chose to move the existing,
the new facility would be a consolidated facility
with a community center at the site,
at the community center,
rather than rebuild at the existing location.
Why did we choose to do that?
That was at the request of the swim teams.
They were concerned that if we lost,
they lost the use of Clark pool during those two years
they would take to build it,
that they will lose their teams.
These are private swim teams that are funded
to have their facilities to run these programs.
Our goal was at least give them some space over at Larky
that they could use it while we were building it,
but they preferred not to do that.
So that kind of pushed us out of that location
into the location we're in now.
Okay, thank you.
I think those are the questions
that I thought at this point.
Kay, does anybody else have any questions?
Kevin, please.
As long as we're on this slide, I'll ask the question, because this was coming up in my questions anyway.
So, just to be clear, there was the design that was drafted, and then you had outreach with the community,
and these are the changes that have been made based on the feedback with the Aquatics Foundation,
as well as other members of the community, over the entire course of meetings with them?
Or did this just come after one or two of them?
So this was after we had the first meeting with them.
There's other changes that have come across
that we're gonna talk about going forward.
Kevin's gonna talk about that as we get into it.
But this was just after our first meeting with them.
We added the next lanes to the recreational area.
And then we added, we moved the deck around.
We did a lot of different changes
to kind of give more deck space and overflow
so we can have the swim meets.
We did it purposely so that we could replicate
what they're doing right now with the swim meets.
Okay, so these changes were made based on recommendations
by that outreach with those groups.
Okay, great.
Thank you.
Okay.
Mayor Pertin.
Just a couple of questions, and we'll dive into this more.
But one of the other things that's really changed about swimming pool design is the code
related to the depth needed to run different events.
Is that correct?
I would prefer when we get in, those questions can come up and Dennis can answer those as
he starts talking about the pools.
He's going to have a, if you don't mind, he can talk about that in a different, he'll
bring that up okay okay thank you because that is a major change it is
talk about okay I'd rather he's the expert he's a nationwide expert in that
and I'd rather have him talk about that okay I'll save all my questions for
Dennis then councilman oh she was a whole more presentation to go okay
everybody as we're going through history I think that's an important part of the
history of why we're doing this because it really affected some of the cabana
club work that I had did prior to coming on council it made what was a very
functional pool we realized the danger of it and we had to change so okay
councilmember Francois thank you mayor on history so I've been on council since
2018 and I recall most of the conversation has been about whether the
competitive pool let's call it would be 25 meter or 50 meter I don't recall
a lot of discussion until recently of the depth of that pool. Was depth an issue that
surfaced during that 10-year period or was it more about the size of the competitive
pool?
It really was more about the size. So you've got to think about the first iteration for
a 25-meter pool was one that could still be used for giving lessons. The key to revenue
lessons lessons lessons that's the key to revenue and so the 25 meter pool is a
pool you can train kids this swim back and forth in and and so that was a whole
key we didn't really talk about depth at all during those periods it was a 50
meters of what we're focusing on okay I think that's all I had on history thank
you thank you are you done we good yeah all right we're gonna turn over to Kevin
now okay good evening council for the record Kevin
and Safeen, Director of Arts and Recreation.
I do want to take 10 seconds
and acknowledge Steve Weimar on his last presentation.
He has been a good partner to my department,
the Arts and Recreation Department,
to I know the council, to other departments,
and to the community.
So thank you, Steve, for your leadership
and guidance throughout this whole process.
So where are we as far as programming?
We're gonna talk about that before I turn over to Dennis
to talk about the design of the facility.
So in the pictures here,
you see what another coworker likes to refer to
a three-legged stool. This images, these images show the three components of the programming
at Larky and at Clark. So on the left you see swim lesson, in the middle you see competition,
this is the Aquanauts, and on the right you see recreation. That's the 50-meter pool at
Clark Swim Center, the end of the pool nearest to the instructional pool, which is used in
this case for recreation. So I'm going to talk to you about that, and I'll talk to you
about some budget information, too.
So programming, first leg of our programming is learn to swim.
Of all the things that we do in the Arts and Recreation
Department, this may be the most critical.
This is teaching people a life skill, which
is learning how to swim.
And so this is not just about revenue.
Yes, that's true.
It's also about why we exist as a department
and why we exist as an organization and a government
to teach people to be safe in the water.
And so that's what we do.
And so the numbers that you see here,
I'm just going to round up, is about 5,000 individuals.
By the way, this is, let me say this,
this was the report that we made to the PROS Commission
last month.
So it's our annual reports.
This is the 2023 data, but still relevant, roughly, to today.
So there are about 5,000 individual members
of this community that learn how to swim every year.
So that 5,000 does not represent the number of times
they come into the pool.
If they're in a group swim lesson
it could be four times a week.
There could be more if there's a private swim lesson.
But I just want to show you the number of people's lives
that we touch through the Learn To Swim program,
which is 5,000 and that's significant.
And that's every single year.
And which is a testament to the work that the staff
at Clark and Larky do all the time.
So thank you to them.
Lap and recreation swim.
The numbers here are the totals.
We keep track of people as they come through Clark
and Larky every day to swim for fitness
or to swim for recreation.
And so the numbers here are about 66,000
during the entire year of 2023, also significant.
Most of that is a Clark because we're opening around,
Larky's open in the summer.
So I don't have the split, it's roughly 90% to 10%,
but that might be off a little bit, but roughly that.
So second part of the stool, recreation fitness swim,
which is not members of a team,
which is not people taking swim lessons that are,
those are people who just come to pay $7
or a swim pass $7 to swim in the pool.
The third leg is the swim teams.
As Steve said, aquatics is important to the fabric
of this community.
The swim teams are essential to that fabric.
Going back decades of their success,
which continues to today.
And so the numbers that you see here
were provided by the teams.
Year-rounds, Aquabears, Aquanauts, and Masters
have about 737 people who are members
who participate in their programs.
Those are not necessarily those who participate
in competitions, Aquabears, Aquanauts, sure,
but Masters, some people just want to be part of the team,
have an organized workout,
may not be swimming in a competition,
but those are members of those teams.
In the summer, each of those teams
has additional participants.
The Wanacrix Clone Club is a seasonal program at Larky,
they just started this week at Larky.
So the seasonal participants is another 300.
So if you round that roughly to about 1,000,
individual members of the team, important.
What I don't have here for you,
but the teams will probably represent,
are the number of times those folks come into the pool.
We don't keep track of that.
Those are team members and their workouts and their meets.
But those numbers are representative of the people
who participate on a regular basis on the swim teams.
So, just to recap, about 5,000 individuals
who take learn to swim lessons from us,
about 66,000, not apples to apples,
who come through our gates,
and about 1,000 members of swim teams.
Budget.
This is our adopted budget for FY24,
but it's pretty comparable to what we've had
the last couple of years since COVID.
I mean, around this number also,
revenue is about a million dollars.
Combined Larky and Clark,
So about a million dollars that we're receiving per year
from the community.
So that's broken down in the following ways.
Registrations, right, that's swim lessons,
that's about 20% of the total, about 200,000.
The rec and fitness swim is about 400,000,
so about 40%.
And rentals, which is what we characterize as the swim team,
we have contracts with each of the teams annually
to rent the facility.
That's about 25%.
And then other rentals, as you see up there,
the swim club, one-off facility rentals,
birthday parties, et cetera, is about 10%.
So that's how you get to the million dollars.
I wanna add here because there's some questions about this.
How much does it cost to rent
the entire Clark Swim Center facility
for an all-day swim meet?
It's $2,700, that's our current fee.
We bumped up a little bit from what it was before,
but that's the current fee of $2,700 per day.
In comparison, a typical summer Saturday at Clark
generates about $3,000 per day,
from recreation, fitness, and rec swimmers.
I said rec and lab swimmers,
so it's pretty comparable to what you see there
between those two activities.
The meat rentals at Clark take up the entire day.
We're open on Saturday for less hours,
so you could look at that in one of two ways,
either the city's getting money from a swim team
who's renting the facility for the entire day,
but what are we giving up when we're closed to the public?
So, two different ways to look at that.
So that's revenue.
On the expense side, if you round this,
it's about 2.1 million.
Compared to the revenue, our cost recovery is 45%,
which is fairly comparable to what we're seeing
in other communities.
But what does that mean?
It means that the other 55% is covered through taxpayers.
So sales tax, property tax, that's provided to the city to offset the cost of running this program.
Aquatics is expensive, it's a 24-hour a day living, breathing facility that requires chemicals and filtration and heat to keep it operational, as well as staff.
So the 45 percent, and then for each of those three stools that I mentioned, this is not additive, this is for each of those individual programs.
So instruction, we recover about 75% of our cost for the Learn to Swim program.
Rec and fitness swim, people coming in who just want to enjoy a workout or play in the
pool, about half of its cost is covered through fees.
And swim team rentals covers about 40% of its cost.
So those are three different ways to look at cost recovery, which adds up to the 45%.
So I'm going to pause there.
I'm going to come back and talk a little bit more later about a separate proposal.
But before Dennis talks about the specific design, I want to see if there's any questions
about programming or budget before I turn over Dennis.
You're part, Tim.
So looking at this, when we talk about cost recovery, there's a subsidy happening to all
three stools.
Is that correct?
That's right.
And it's a slightly lower subsidy to the instruction than it is to others.
But no matter what, swimming pools are a loss leader.
We don't make money on the deal.
For public swimming pools, that's correct.
There are private swim facilities, Aquatec, they charge a whole lot more, the overhead
is less, they don't pay their staff as much as we would, but you can recover your cost
if you're a private entity, but again, the fees are going to be much higher.
Okay, and then this is for both swimming pools?
Correct.
Both swim centers, yes.
Okay.
Councilmember Silva. So in your purview are also Tice Valley Jim,
Lesher Center for the Arts. Let's just say Tice Valley Jim. Is this the kind of
cost recovery? Is the operation of Tice Valley Jim as taxpayer
subsidized as pools? Tice Valley Jim covers more of its cost than aquatics.
Ties Valley Gem has higher cost recovery than aquatics yes. So this is
and is this unique to our pool versus say Cowell pool and Concord or any other
public pools not school pools. Yeah maybe I'm asking the wrong person that
question. Dennis who knows all of this. If Dennis agrees with me I'll say it
this way 45% is fairly comparable it may be within a range of plus or minus
5 to 10%, depending on the pool. Those pools that don't have a 50-meter pool probably cover
more of their costs because a 50-meter pool is expensive and you can't do the same amount
of programming that you do in a recreational pool. So a smaller community facility probably
has better cost recovery than we do. So if we isolated Larky from Clark, Larky's
got a better cost recovery and it's seasonal, so it's a different model. But I will also
say that when Larky opened, we went from maybe 4,000 or 5,000 people there a year,
sorry, a season, to 30,000 people after we remodeled the facility. So I fully expect
that to happen here. The volume will go up for sure. But yeah, Larky would cover more
of its cost because it is seasonal, it's a smaller facility and has a significant recreational
amenity.
And has anything changed over time with this model? It looks fairly similar to what we
we've been looking at since 2010 and 11,
but I would have to pull this out and fill it through it.
What's changed over time is our expenses.
It is more expensive to operate a facility that's this old,
which is on one system, one filtration system.
So we spend a fair amount of time
with our excellent maintenance worker
to keep the facility up and running.
So we had some challenges over the weekend
where we lost a component to the heater
and we had to get that part in.
And so in the meantime, the temperature was dropping.
So it does cost us more to maintain it at the level
that we need to maintain it at,
which is health and safety.
Okay.
Thank you.
Council Member Francois.
I'm gonna try not to go too deep on it,
but in terms of the programming, can you,
I know I can't help myself.
I really didn't, you know.
Rise to the surface, go deep.
On the programming, can you,
sorry, can you go back to the last slide?
Yeah.
No, the one before that.
Now the one after that again.
There's this one which had the nice picture.
Oh no, that was at the very beginning.
So this one.
That's all I got.
That's all you had?
OK, you had, there we go.
Instruction, what falls into that category?
Yeah, the same, I'm going to go back now.
So on the right, or actually on the left,
there's the group swim lessons, which is the vast majority
of what we do, people taking a lesson
with a group of other participants,
either an individual child or with a parent.
There's private lessons, which is one-on-one.
There's adaptive needs lessons, which we're just starting.
There's lifeguard certification courses,
which we provide lifeguard certs for people
who work in the cabana clubs on a regular basis,
very popular.
So that's the range of different learn to swim
or instruction programs that we offer.
And that's our highest cost recovery, this category?
That's right, that's right.
And do all of these happen in the big pool now at Clark?
No, some happen in the 50 meter pool at the end closest
to the instructional pool.
Most happen in that smaller shallow instructional pool.
Okay, that's instruction.
You had one other category.
Was it wreck and lap swim?
Yeah, that's right.
Is that just as it seems or is there water aerobics
or are there other components to that?
Where's Karen?
Yes, that includes water aerobics as well.
Any other besides just regular?
I'm going to ask Karen Houston Martin,
who's our pool manager, recreation manager,
come up and answer that question for you.
I'm stalling as much as I can for their ships.
You may repeat the question too.
Just what, Karen, welcome.
What kind of what falls in this category
of lap and rec swim?
Good evening, Mayor and council members.
Lap swim, fitness swim, water walking, water exercise,
Recreational swimming day camps.
We do some specialized recreation or special groups.
We had groups come in from underserved communities
where we provided instruction
and then recreational swimming after that.
So those are what falls in those categories.
This is without any city employee leading it.
There's lifeguards obviously, but not,
it's not a formal class.
Correct, we have lifeguards on duty.
We may assign one depending on what it is.
We may assign one staff member, like our special groups
that come in and we provide a service
and then they rec swim.
And the same question, kind of where do the bulk
of these activities occur currently?
Lap swim, fitness swim, exercise, 50 meter pool,
diving well, recreational swimming, all three pools.
If Matt you relinquish.
I had one other for Kevin, I think.
So this is for Karen, if you don't mind.
When one of the photos, don't move the slides,
one of the photos showed some kind of inflatable or play
feature of the water.
Is that considered recreational swim even though they're
play?
So recreational swim, lap swim is back and forth
and back and forth, but not by people who belong to a team.
Correct.
Like my neighbor, Rosemary, who goes three or four mornings
a week.
And then the rest of it is also could be coming
to play on a hot day.
Correct.
and play with inflatables and all of that.
Recreational swimming is pay-to-play,
not instructional, lap-swim fitness.
You're moving back and forth with a purpose.
Recreational swim, you're there to play.
OK.
OK, thank you.
OK, so while you're interrupted, can I
ask a little question, which is, do you have adult swimming
lessons?
Is there any age limit over or under which you're you?
We offer public lessons for six months,
which is a parent child class up to, you name it, your age.
We do offer teen adult group lessons.
We also partner with the Walnut Creek Masters
and offer a free Learn to Swim
through the Walnut Creek Masters.
We provide the pool space, they provide the instruction,
and we do that at least twice a year.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
As you were, Matt.
Thank you, Mayor.
So just kind of final question, without diving too deep.
Let me see your notes.
The splash pad follows in the category of recreational,
is that right?
That's right.
So you don't have specific numbers on the splash pad per se,
but it's a 50% cost recovery overall?
At Larky, is that your specific question?
We can probably get that for you,
but it's gonna be above 50% I would think.
Above 50.
And there's a lifeguard on duty at that picture?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
OK.
Thank you.
One last question.
Oh, no.
I'm sorry.
That's OK.
So you have the number, the type of participant,
and the total number here.
That's not 65,000 individual people.
That's 65,000.
Right.
My analogy would be the Giants draw a million fans
to the season.
It's not a million individual, discrete baseball fans.
It's the number of people who come in that day,
plus the next day, plus the next day.
OK, and then we don't, on the other leg of the stool,
the teams, we know the total number of people on the team.
We don't know the total number of days
that those swimmers swim.
The teams would have that, and they can probably
share that with you this evening.
But these are not equivalent numbers.
Right.
It's not apples to apples, you're right.
I couldn't think of a good water analogy there, so.
Is there a way to make them equivalent, though?
The one you just showed, the 65,000, is turnstiles, right?
That's right.
So I'm guessing that the Aquatic Foundation
or the team representatives will have those numbers
for us this evening and they may be able to share that
with you and we can compare that to the,
if you keep this number, 66,000.
Okay, thank you.
Okay, with that, I'll turn it over to Dennis Berkshire
from the Aquatic Design Group.
As Steve said, Dennis is the preeminent aquatic designer
probably in the country.
He's been working with us for over 15 years
on these projects, he designed Larky for us,
as well as this facility.
So it's our pleasure and honor
to have Dennis on the project.
So Dennis.
Thank you, Steve.
Good evening, Madam Mayor,
honorable city council members,
staff and the public.
You know, it's really a pleasure to be here.
And as Kevin mentioned, as Steve mentioned,
I've been working with the city
for almost 20 years on this pool.
And so I'm standing here tonight torn where
Kevin said that I could tell you, explain everything there is to know about a pool and
I have to keep it under two and a half hours.
No, I'm just kidding.
No, trying to get where do we start with what's going on and we've come so far in this process.
So what we want to do in getting into the pool specifically is to go through and present
a site plan as to how we're approaching this.
And a lot of this will speak to the questions you've been asking so far.
Getting into some perspectives, what might this look like as we've perceived through
this schematic design.
Getting into pool diagram so we can start talking about how deep are we going to dive
into this subject, what is the depth of the pools and all these pieces.
And then some of the pool metrics, things to try to help make decisions as to what we're
trying to do.
One of the questions was a moment ago about how the aquatics industry has evolved, and
it has in numerous ways.
First of all, to make water safer, it's gotten deeper.
Another is that what we had was, quote, flat water, which is what we've always referred
to as rectilineal water, compared to what's going to happen for recreation uses and stuff.
That's grown and evolved.
Another one is that the old models for public swimming pools for cities used to be neighborhood
pools.
You know, I know as a kid growing up where we would just walk to the pool and I guess
I date myself here to talk about paying a quarter to go swim, right, or the $20 for
a yearly pass or something like that, but so what used to be the neighborhood pool,
now really because of costs and operations, has really gotten into regional.
And it's no longer that drop-off, you know, it used to be part of the daycare.
Mom could drop us off at 11 in the morning and pick us up at two or three in the afternoon.
We'd spend all day there at the pool hanging out.
Now this is multigenerational, as you've heard that term earlier, oftentimes sandwich generations,
three generations that might be attending this facility at one time.
Also we look at this facility and say the evolution again is this destination where
people are going to come back again and again, which allows us to generate revenue for these
expenses that these things are so expensive to operate in comparison.
So if we take a look at the site plan, you can see that following with the MOU, the very
first approach to this site plan was to come up so that we could, and we set up with this,
so that we could try to come up with a balanced site.
And from the community center that you've already been talking about, the aquatic center
support spaces, the pools themselves, and to come up with something that can represent
recreational, fun water as compared to the flat water,
taking a look at the shallow water that supports,
you know, the general community use
versus that competitive water is all part of this.
So we've got a site where we come in to the pool
as is typical for today's standard,
we bring people into the shallow water.
So we're not trying to bring small children in
where the water's 14 feet deep
and there might be more rescues and saves
and things like that.
So bringing them into a shallow water area,
we've also taken the opportunity to bifurcate the site,
to divide it into and to have a way
so that if there is a swim meet
where the swim team's charging a fee
to come in and use that pool,
that doesn't mean that we still can't have
our senior fitness program,
or we couldn't have our swim lessons,
or in my case, my granddaughter's not having
a birthday party or rental or things like that going,
so it would allow us to be able
look at these various programs and say one doesn't now have to just kick out everyone
else at that facility.
It's again trying to get this balanced facility that's going to serve our community.
Looking at perspectives, one of the things that I want to commend the city council, staff,
the aquatics foundation is we're looking at something that's going to be beautiful for
this community.
And this is a commitment that's been made that is not equaled very often in the state
California for aquatics. When we take a look at the commitment that we're making
to aquatics for this community, this is quite remarkable. I mean we can talk
about what do we have here and conquered adjacent to us or Pleasant Hill or or go
down to the the Pleasanton Aquatic Center or the the new one that went in
down at Dublin for example. And what we're doing here is something that's
going to be one of the truly leading aquatic centers in not only northern
California, but really represent all of California
and what's being developed here.
So you're taking a look at what it would be
to come into the facility from outside.
Again, as we come into the recreation pool
as compared to the competition pool
that you saw in the plan before,
out onto the recreation pool deck,
where we have a pool that's a rim flow deck level gutter,
so it's easy for people to get in and out,
whether that's children.
And again, the idea of modern aquatics
is to have something that caters to children
that are two years old and children that are 102 years old
and everywhere in between.
And so coming up with something that
can be inviting, comforting, not overbearing
is really important.
So now taking a look at the pool diagram.
So let's start to dive in a little bit deeper here
to what we're looking at, to quote somebody.
So starting on the left, again, we
We have the recreation pool.
So as we come into this pool, we have a beach type entry.
Now that doesn't mean sand, that doesn't mean,
we're not bringing stuff from Turks and Caicos here,
but a zero depth beach entry that might support mommy
and me classes, things like that.
So we have this area where you could sit
and a child can start to explore the water that
might be two inches or six inches
to start to learn from this.
And as Kevin mentioned before, the idea
that bringing water safety to the community
is something we want everyone in Walnut Creek
to learn how to swim,
whether they can afford lessons or not.
So we come into an area with a zero entry,
we get into what we call wading pool depths,
which is roughly 18 to 24 inches of water.
In that area, we have some interactive play.
Once again, this is an area that would allow children
to start to explore water, to experience water,
where all of a sudden you realize
that what water is a source of life,
But at the same time, you also start to respect it.
You get it in your eye.
You put your mouth and start to choke over it and learn.
You have to protect yourself.
That's part of learning water safety.
Then as we start to move across this pool,
we get into the three-foot water depth.
And one of the things that's important to remember
is that for people to wade into a pool comfortably
and stand and have your head above the water,
you generally have to be about one foot taller
than the water to do so.
so as we talk about a two-foot water depth, you've got to be three feet tall to comfortably do that.
When we move into the current channel area, this is where we have moving water. So once again,
children now can experience water in a different fashion. Again, this is three-foot water depth,
so now we're looking at patrons that are going to be roughly almost four feet tall or taller at that
point. We also look at this as a method an area for fitness so people can go
with the current for ease of walking and for those that want to go against it a
counter to that can use that as resistance. So whether that's recreation
whether that's learning whether that's fitness it hosts all kinds of activities.
Then as we come down into the pool itself we come down into the shallow
area of a six-lane by 25-yard pool area where we have three and a half foot of
water depth. These are great areas for learn to swim programs and then we'll
get into deeper water probably somewhere in the neighborhood of four and a half
to five feet deep at the deep end of the pool is what we've been discussing so
far. Now as we jump over to the 50 meter Olympic size pool, this is a pool that's
50 meters long by 25 yards wide, first you'll see that we have stairs at the
shallow end and that's to meet California's building code and California
environmental health code title 24 that says all public pools have to have walk
out stairs. That same code also tells us that public swimming pools have to have
a shallow end no deeper than three feet six inches. And so with this we're
showing a pool that does have three and a half feet of water depth at the end. In
this pool we've got this set up so that we have 13 lanes. If I jump down to the
deep end, we're 13 feet at the deep end where we have one meter and three meter diving,
and a deep bowl that could serve for artistic swimming and other programs.
And so then we have a total of 13 lanes that are dedicated to deep water, competitive water
in this pool.
And so from there we come out with the remaining lanes that are in the shallow water that can
also be used for lap swimming, for warm-up cooldowns of swim meets, a whole variety of
events that go on there.
And you can also see that as we're looking at this whole thing with these diagrams and
sites, we're trying to get that balance that Steve talked about earlier, not only between
the water but the water, all of the deck and area to support the events around that, and
then the landscape to even support that as well.
So all of those are important to what we're doing at the site.
Now as a perspective, what you see here is the two pools that I just showed you and the
The red overlays represent the water that's at Clark Swim Center now, at Heather Farm.
So the 50 meter by 25 yard pool that's existing, laying over our new proposed pool, same in
terms of water surface area with the exception of the stairs.
And the other exception in this water is that the current pool is shallow, and this is going
to have that 13 lanes that are dedicated to deep water that's in this pool.
the recreation. The lines that are going this way. Are those the lanes or is it the lines
going this way? Yes. It's confusing. So what we have is long
course swimming which is 50 meter long course swimming. And we'll talk about that in a moment
to clarify that. And then side to side is the 25 yard short course swimming. Got it.
Once you get to my age you start saying short course swimming is much better. Yeah. We get
to that wall quicker. So on the rec pool what we've now shown is an overlay of the 25 meter
by 6 lane deep pool that's at Heather Farm currently along with the teaching pool that's
at Heather Farm. So you can see everything outside of the box represents the additional
water that's being proposed here from what is existing water today. So when we talk about
the 50 meter pool. Now we've got a pool that has long course. And again, that's long course,
what we call Olympic swimming. And long course swimming is used for people that are wanting
to compete internationally. There's also a long course season. And that's usually about
six weeks or so per year that teams and groups will participate in long course season. Then
the rest of the time, the rest of the year, they're competing on the short course, the
25 yard here in the US swimming.
So now we've got a 50 meter pool,
and again, this pool is set up so that it meets
FINA standards for international swim.
It meets USA swim standards here in the US,
it meets NC2A standards, and it meets CIF,
our high school standards.
So this pool is configured so that it meets
all of those standards for competitive use,
and that's gonna be whether it's swimming, water polo,
or what we used to call synchronized swimming,
artistic swimming.
So now we've got a pool set up that can support long course.
We have a pool that supports swim lessons, recreation swim
because of the shallow water that we have up here.
And there was a question earlier about the floating obstacle
courses.
Wibbit is a prominent brand.
And by having a pool set up like this,
we have the ability to have a lower level inflatable.
And that's going to be flat to the water that
uses a shallower water.
So if someone falls into the water,
they have fall attenuation, but they can stand up and breathe.
That's important, right?
But then we can get into the taller inflatables
for older children to try to get rec purposes into this pool.
And then the taller the higher you are above the water,
the deeper the water's got to be so you can safely
fall into the water and not fall to the bottom
and have an injury or something like that.
So here we have a pool that supports rec swim, again, the competitive swim.
So we know that this is a pool that can support swim meets, both long course or short course.
It's going to support practices.
It has the ability to support water polo, special events, swim meets as we've talked
about, exercise, it has the one meter, three meter diving along with other programs.
You know, we don't have it here to show you tonight,
but at one point we did a count of all of the communities
across the country that we've worked with
in aquatic centers.
And we've counted out now somewhere almost 70 different
aquatic programs that people have put into the pools.
And it's trying to get that maximum utility
of building such an asset to the community.
How do we get a maximum utility and truly use this?
And so the typical programs we talk about here,
but getting into things like kayak lessons
or scuba diving lessons we've heard about years past.
We're doing a pool right now
where it's gonna have underwater hockey
that's being supported.
Last fall I had the city of Bakersfield
wanting to know if there was any health problems,
if they wanted to have frozen turkey races
in their pool come Thanksgiving.
And of course there's pumpkin tosses
and all kinds of programs
to bring and introduce people to our aquatics.
So if we take a look at the competitive swim, lap swim,
that we've talked about, looking at the 50-meter pool,
then we have six lanes that are set up
where we could have a team coming in to use
the pool or a swim meet.
We have another lane that's a divider lane and another six
lanes.
And again, all of this water is dedicated to deep water
for the pool.
So we have those 13 lanes that are all deep water.
And so if we were having one or two meets,
whether these are practices.
In addition to these 13 lanes,
this pool has a total of 20.
So in addition to these 13,
then we still have another seven lanes at the end.
We really could have three teams coming in here
to practice at one time.
As part of this, we can also...
So as part of this, we have a system
where you normally look at a public swimming pool
and say you can get four to six swimmers in a lane,
depending on how accomplished they are at swimming.
So with a pool that we would say has 20 lanes,
then we would say this is a pool that could support
up to 120 swimmers practicing at any one time.
We also have the six lanes that are in the rec pool.
So if we had an event going on,
let's say we had long course swimming going on
and we want to allow our athletes
to have warmup cool downs,
that could be accomplished over here
in these six lanes that are in the rec pool as well.
That's gonna allow people to warm up before their event,
After their event, get back into the water
to burn up the lactic acid and cool down
as athletes are gonna want to do.
In terms of water polo, we take a look at,
or excuse me, artistic swimming.
We've now got a pool, again,
with 13-foot water depths here,
so we're set up for the deep water of artistic swimming.
We're also set up for the figures with artistic swimming.
So once again, we've got all of this
dedicated deep water to this pool
that could support artistic swimming programs,
both practices and competitions or events.
Water polo, water polo swims at 25 yards where we're set up
or 25 meters or 30 meters
if we're trying to do an Olympic event.
And so now we've got a pool that's set up
so that we could run water polo.
If we're having practices, we can go side to side
so that we could have two water polo practices occurring
at one time.
we could have two games at a lower level.
And then when they want to come in to the final games,
turn it back to the floating goals on the long axis.
So once again, it can support water polo
from both practice and to the game day as well.
Looking at the rec pool, again,
we've talked about the beach entry to the interactive play,
the exploration of water, the current channel,
three foot areas, the splash features that are going on,
and then the ability to have lap lanes.
This is a pool that's probably going
to operate at a slightly warmer temperature.
So for some people coming in, they
might want to swim laps that is warmer water
than we're running the competitive water.
Typically, it's, say, 78 to 80, maybe 81 degrees,
something like that.
So once again, this is trying to come up
with a facility that can serve our entire community
and trying to look at everyone that
wants to come in and use aquatics.
And can we try to put them into the water
for these various amenities.
So in taking a look at the comparisons of what
we had from programs in terms of what was running with Clark
to what's being proposed in the new,
being able to support shallow water wreck
swim, deep water wreck swim, swim lessons, lap swim, spring
boards, the inflatables.
Now we start taking a look at some of these things
other than just flat water activities
that we're able to support in this new facility.
We can take a look at competitive.
I mean, once again, the current swimming pool,
50 meter pool at Heather Farm is not deep enough
by California State Code to dive off
of a starting block into the pool.
And once again, we're looking at a 50 meter pool
that on the short course would have 13 lanes
to be able to do that.
So we start looking at our ability to support
some of these competitive programs much better
than the existing facilities can today.
Long course swimming, as we've talked about.
One of the things that we look at it from this,
Steve was talking to us about a month or so ago
in a meeting about how we design facilities
and how we try to make it serve the entire community.
And this is whether this is bridges or streets
or roads or what have you or aquatic centers.
But how do we come up with something
that can meet everybody?
But at the same time, we can't design this
so that we never have any traffic on one of our roads.
During peak demand, there's always
going to be that trade-off of what we're going to build.
So as part of this, we're taking a look
at how can we try to get a maximum utility
to support the community.
Again, from rentals, camps, all of those other almost 70
programs, do we have facilities, whether that's
water, decks, storage areas, buildings
to support these programs?
So again, the proposed amenities that we've talked about from the beach-type entry, the
spray water, the current channel, that shallow water, moving water for water exploration,
there's a little small water slide in it for children.
One of the things I, there was a question earlier about this looks a lot like what we
were doing 10, 12 years ago.
What's not shown in this one that we were showing back then were big water slides.
And what's happened is we know that in the community, whether we're going to go to the
the water park here in town or those things, water slides have evolved as well and they're
now regulated by California what's called DOSH, Department of Occupational Safety and
Health, as an amusement ride.
And so the expense and the staffing becomes something that's much greater than what it
used to be and that's why that's not being shown or proposed here as part of the recreation
models.
So taking a look at the program size and then now let's start looking at the numbers.
So at the existing Clark Center we take a look at the swim center itself where we had
5,680 square feet of swim center to support aquatics.
The new proposal has 8,500 square feet.
When we take a look at the changing rooms, existing facility has 1,500 square feet, 1523.
The proposed is 2,000 square feet.
The community center, we take a look at that with a 9,000 square foot community center.
This is going to have a roughly 15,000 square foot community center.
Dropping down to the pools.
Surface area of water.
So the existing water at Heather Farm is 17,890 square feet.
And the proposed is 20,065 in this configuration.
Pool deck, 35,846 is existing.
What's being proposed is 42,000 square feet of deck.
And the landscape supporting this, 35,961, and the proposed is 38,800 square feet.
So in every case you can see where we've expanded these programs to try to better serve needs.
So with that, we'll leave it there.
Are there any questions that you have for me?
Isn't that ironic?
We just had the question about, could we ask questions?
Council Member Silva.
I have a number of questions, and it maybe requires staff to participate as well, but
can you explain?
No, this one definitely works for you.
I looked up FINA depths, and there are more than one standard of FINA, so can you explain
that and maybe you have to have the picture of the flat diagram of the pool so that we
understand it, because I decided not to read 80 pages.
How about that one?
Okay?
That's great.
Okay.
So first of all, FINA.
FINA is the Federation International, so that's the International Standards for Swimming.
USA Swimming follows that, as does NC2A.
So in terms of standards for FINA, FINA comes up with what they call the local chapters,
and there's a standard for water there.
So for example, by FINA standards for local swim pools, local swim groups, it tells us
is that the deep end where you dive off of for a FINA swim
meet event has to be 1.35 meters, which is about 4.5 feet
of water.
So by dive off, you mean a racing start on a block?
Yes.
Thank you.
And on the opposite end, it says the pool
has to be no deep or not less than 1 meter deep.
That's 3.28 feet.
So just under 3.5 feet is the minimum by FINA standards.
Do they consider that swimmable?
Yes.
Whether it's 1 meter or 1.35 meters, did I get those number?
That is correct.
So doing flip turns, doing swimming, and all of that.
By FINA standards, if you have a local swim pool you're
operating, you have to be at least 4 and 1.5 feet where
you're coming off of the block.
And you have to be at 3.28, so just under 3 and 1.5 feet
at the shallow end of the pool.
And I can do a racing turn.
You can do a racing turn in that.
Yes.
In 3 and 1.5 feet.
correct. Okay, what's this pool? So this pool is showing us that we have 13 feet at the deep end
on long course and three and a half feet at the shallow end. Okay. And if we're running. It exceeds
the one meter. It exceeds the one meter. Yeah, one meter is 3.28 feet and we're going to be 3.6
here, 3.5. If we're running at short course, then the intention for running competitive water,
Again, we have the 13 lanes that are
dedicated to where the water is seven feet deep or deeper.
And then we have the remaining lanes
that are going to be 4 and 1 half to 3 and 1 half water
depth in the pool.
So can we run competitive programs
in some of the white lanes?
Yes.
I see white, pink, and off.
Yeah, what happens is if we're running long course,
you can absolutely run long course to swim down,
do a flip turn, and come back.
So there's a number of standards here,
and as we've talked about, these standards evolve.
USA Swimming says, for example,
you can dive off of a starting block
where the water's four and a half feet deep, or deeper,
but you cannot teach starts
in less than six feet of water depth.
So we know that the idea of injuries,
spinal injuries into pools, things like that.
The US Swimming Pool Foundation
and their safety compendium reports
that spinal injuries are non-existent in pools
when they're seven feet deep or deeper.
California Building Code and California Health Code
says that we have to post universal no diving symbols
everywhere the water is six feet deep or less.
So it has to be deeper than six feet
to put a starting block to have somebody diving into the pool.
So we round that up to six and a half feet.
And with what we do, we take it up to seven
in what we're doing here with the safety compendium.
So we don't have the ability to put starting blocks
the white line in the that is correct in anywhere that is white here that would
be less than by California regulations less than six and a half feet deep so
you would not have starting blocks in any of those okay so for example when
we talk about having a long course meet for example this meets fina standards
for a long course meet what you'll hear though is some people coming in saying
saying, look, does it support a meat?
Yes or no?
The answer is unequivocally yes.
However, you've got some meats that might be very large,
where people say, look, to make the meat faster,
rather than having somebody queue up here,
have them their event, get back out,
go over and do their cool down.
We now get the next group organized to get in
to do their heat.
Can we line them up on both ends so that we can go faster?
And if you wanted to use this pool
make it go at both ends at the same time for that, then the answer is no.
This does not support if you were trying to run a meat that way.
And so it does meet a long course meat and the majority of the pools built in California
are going to be built this way with the deep end and the shallow end to meet California
code's requirement that a shallow end be no deeper than three feet six inches.
Are exception sorry, this is California building code have a requirement as to the amount of that shout that
Minimum shallow depth has to be in the pool. Yes it does
So it says that a public swimming pool has a shallow end no be deeper than three feet six inches
The maximum slope from three feet six inches to the four foot six inch is a one in ten slope
Okay, so it's going to take ten feet to get down to the four six mark
Okay, and then from that four six mark dropping down then to competitive water once it's four six or deeper
We're allowed of one and three slope
45 degree angle so this reflects that or is it well we have that or gradual
That well we have a larger area of shallow water in the 50 meter pool here so that it's going to support learns to swim
It's going to support other recreation programs and not be a dedicated competition pool
We've I have spoken with the County Environmental Health to get their ruling because there is an exception to that three foot six inches in code
and that is California Administrative Code title 24 says chapter 31 B says that
You have to be not deeper than three and a half feet. The only
exception is a special-purpose pool and
It defines a special-purpose pool as a pool designed for a single specific purpose
and the most common
Example of that I can give is we're gonna do a 10 meter dive tower and in a 10 meter dive tower
We surely don't want three and a half feet of water depth
So saying it's going to be all deep to support that dive tower makes it a special-purpose dive pool
So what happens is and we've discussed this with the County Environmental Health if we wanted to make this just an all deep
50 meter pool we could do so and we would classify it as a special-purpose
Competition pool in doing so the health department says it then must be fenced off
independent from the public swimming pool area and
Secondly, they're going to limit programs to only those competitive programs
So we couldn't have rec swim for example in that pool
So my neighbor couldn't go in on Friday mornings and swim her lap
She'd have to be swimming laps the health department said unless she swimming laps in deep water and saying I'm part of the competitive
groups to do so. So let me check with this. So at PROSE there was a lot of
discussion about the special purpose pool. Correct. And then we saw subsequent
correspondence that talked about an L-shape as being a way to get a pool
that had more deep water to still meet California coast. Can you
explain that? Yes, so there's several ways, that's a great question, there's
several ways we can get around that, if you will.
Your first question was right on point.
How much or how little do I have to have of that 3.6 to 4.6?
So what we can do is to take a pool
and put an L or a toe appendage to it.
And if I make the end of it at least 6 feet, 6 inches,
so I can put starting blocks there by California code,
we'll say let's make it safe or make it even 7 feet,
then we know it's going to take us to get from 7 feet
to that 4-6 line by those four slopes that I described,
that's going to take 7 1 by 2 feet.
I'm going to round that up to 8 feet.
Then from the 4-6 to the 3-6 is another 10 feet.
So now that's 18 feet that we have in that transition.
And then if we use that for stairs,
that determines that minimum toe that we've got there.
The other thing in California code
is it says a public swimming pool is no narrower than 15 feet.
So that toe or that L is gonna have to be a minimum
of 15 feet wide by that length
that we've just spooled out to make that.
So if I made that little return or foot off of the pool,
I've technically got a code compliant
three six shallow end in that pool,
even though the entire body of the 50 meter area,
the 50 meters by 25 yards could be all deep.
The second way we can achieve this
is we start to stretch pools
and we'll say let's put a, make it a stretch 50 meter pool
where we would have a movable bulkhead
so we would be deep water to the bulkhead
and then we can transition the pool
to shallow water beyond that
so that we could get all of our competitive
into that programs into that deep water
and still meet that code 3-6 shallow end.
Now that becomes a pool that might be 60 meters long
to 65 meters, you know, and we did that at UC Davis
at 65 meters long, for example.
We did it for the city of Carlsbad
and it's 62 meters, 62 and a half meters there in length.
Another way you can stretch to still get to the 3.6,
but trying to keep that competitive water in deep
if that's what we decide we want to do.
So for example, here, and sorry Cindy,
I know I jumped in on this.
No, no, go ahead.
If we took the area, and I'm pointing at my thing,
assuming you could look, if we took those 25 yards
and popped them onto the other end of the pool,
kept them shallow, then, yeah.
I mean, there is a challenge.
Yes, somewhere here, we could come in, again,
15 feet wide and come out and create that area.
Yes, we have the ability to be able to make that, again,
a non-special purpose pool.
And the reason we normally go to that,
if we've decided that we're going
to make this a competitive dominant or predominant pool,
is that we're trying to avoid any pigeon
holing or limitations to the program.
So now, because if we make it special purpose,
the county and health department is going to require
a city representative to sign a letter stating
they've acknowledged it's a special purpose pool
and its programs are going to be limited
to those appropriate special programs
in accordance with that definition.
But if we get to three-sixth, then it goes away.
You avoid that.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you.
Okay, as we can expect, is there anybody...
taking care of everybody by my deep analysis. Just a request mayor if we
could get an estimate for how much longer the staff report is we've got a
lot of people who want to make public comment just want to make sure we can
accommodate everyone. Do we have an estimate for the time? Well the time for
our presentation we probably have maybe eight or so more slides. It'll be
incumbent on you to determine how many questions you want to ask us to see how
much longer will be up here, but we could go through the slides quickly, and you can
decide how you want to proceed from there.
I have one final question that, and this is in response to the special purpose, they said
you'd have to put a fence up.
Yes.
So you can avoid the fence, maybe, by putting an L-shape.
We can avoid all of the limitations with an L-shape.
If we get to 3.6 somewhere in that pool legally,
in the configurations and slopes and stuff,
it's no longer a special purpose pool.
But that 3.6, that L-shape, is that programmable?
No.
So it's not.
We did one, for example, for the city of Sacramento
at North Natomas Aquatic Center.
And there, it's that very definition.
It's that very minimal space.
you're not going to have any programs in there.
And so it's basically going to be.
They also have an internal fence.
Oftentimes we'll do fences to be able to bifurcate or separate
the spaces, but it's not an official pool fence that
has to be five feet tall and meet those kinds of things.
If we made it a special purpose, then they
would tell us it has to be that five foot minimum height pool
fence to meet code to separate that,
to prevent a small child from getting
into this all deep competitive pool.
Does that make sense?
Okay, yes.
Thank you, Mayor.
You, is there another question before we move on?
I do have a few.
For right now?
I don't know.
What are we doing?
Are we gonna?
Since he's up already,
if we're gonna ask a question that he needs to answer,
we should do that while he's standing.
Okay.
The person who is leaning on the light, please move away.
Told you it would happen.
So Dennis, I want to go back to the one where you overlaid the pool, because I think this
gets to the crux of what we're struggling with, where we overlaid the pools from.
So as I understand it, deep water is the golden calf here that people are all looking for,
And that the getting rid of the diving well and overlaying that there on that part, the
difference is that that's not deep, that it's...
Correct.
What we're showing here is being shown as shallow water.
Yeah.
And the difference in from deep water to shallow water is really recreation and competition.
Yeah.
But we know that the deeper the water, the safer it is to dive into.
The deeper the water, the faster times are going to be in swimming.
So deep water is all about competition.
But what you will find when you go to competitive venues.
So for example, if I take the 50 meter pool, that's 12,300 square feet not counting the
stairs or an L or something like that.
by code, the maximum occupancy of that pool
is one person for every 20 square feet.
So if I take 12,300, that's over 600 people
by code that could be in that pool.
I wouldn't want to be in that pool.
No.
We would normally tell you from a recreation standpoint,
if it's shallow water, that it would be common
to be about half of that.
So that 600 and some people really is about 300 people
that you could put into a 50 meter pool comfortably
for recreation programs.
As a swimming pool for the swim teams,
we just came in and said, the maximum's 120 people.
So it's gonna serve about a third of what it would
if you were trying to do recreation.
So the whole real crux comes down to what commitments
do we make on water to commit to competitive programs
as compared to what are we having available
for recreation use?
Yeah, clearly balance is going to be one of those issues.
That balance is a huge issue.
And that was one of the evolutions for aquatics
here in California and the Southwest,
is that when we take a look at pools, when we pull our,
Kevin was presenting some of the economics.
What we know is when we make a pool a competitive venue,
45% is about as good as you're going to get,
anywhere from 30 to 45, maybe close to 50,
in an annual operating cost recovery.
The more we can bring in recreation
and birthday party rentals and other things
that are more personalized, market value programs,
now you can get a facility that can get you to 65 or 70%.
And then if you make it fully privatized,
as Kevin had mentioned, water parks and stuff,
they can actually make a profit.
Yeah, so a couple more quick questions.
The current pool, you've designed those
in a couple other places, is there a difference
in operating expense for a current pool versus flat water?
Do we know what that, I mean.
When we look at operating expenses in a public swimming pool,
first of all, the single largest expense
is gonna be staffing.
So staffing, wages, benefits, all of those.
Utilities is the second largest single line item
when we look at these.
And the majority of all of the expenses
our surface area of water, not depth or that moving water.
So when we look at it, water evaporation, surface area.
Heating of the pool is based on surface area
where we lose the heat to evaporation,
conduction, convection.
It's not the mass of water.
I'm just wondering what is the cost associated
with the circulation of the water?
Water's heavy and it's hard.
The only thing you could say,
you've got a booster pump there
that's driving the water for that.
Now again, we call it a current channel
And we're using that term versus a lazy river specifically because this is not a lazy river.
It's got the current, well, you lay on an inner tube and it's going to move you around.
Once again, California OSHA, DOSH, if it was moving you around, would say that's an amusement
ride and we're going to get into all of those things.
Yeah, I get the difference.
So you would have on a pool this size and this channel right here, probably somewhere
around a three to five horsepower pump driving that water.
And if we look at it and say today's electric rates, it's about $1,000 per horsepower per
year to run.
That was running 24-7, so it's about a 5,000.
In this one, you wouldn't be running it 24 hours a day, so $2,000, $3,000 a year in operating
expense of that.
What's the usage been on the ones where you've installed them?
I know the splash pads get instant use.
What is the usage numbers you're seeing on this?
It's amazing.
I can't claim to come up with this concept.
There were people back east that started using these.
And the current channels actually
came out of indoor aquatic centers where
they didn't have room.
And so everything was getting shrunk to do that.
But the kids, the people, just flocked to them.
I look at it and say, it's amazing.
What is that recreation value here?
But then again, I can remember playing for hours
jumping over a sprinkler in the backyard,
you know, in the grass or something.
And that's quite entertaining for kids.
And so, whether you look at it,
we did it for the city of Oakland
and the East Oakland Sports Center.
We did it for the city of Fairfield
at the Alum Witt Aquatic Center.
We've done it for the city of West Sacramento.
And everybody talks about the recreation
and the fitness use of it.
It's surprisingly popular.
They do get used, I always,
you remember when the parkour courses
were like everybody was putting on.
And I'm like, how many of those have you seen
that are not getting used?
So whenever I see something novel,
I always want to know what's the track record on it.
Let's see, so if we did the bigger pool
with the L and it was all deep,
there is still some of the rentable spaces,
things like scuba diving can go in there,
the larger inflatable can go in there for the kids.
The older swim classes can still go in there.
By using the L, you're not creating,
I mean it's not truly a special purpose pool at that point.
It's not a special purpose pool
because we got our 3.6 in there by code.
There are recreation programs we can get in
that are gonna use, say log rolling,
or they get up and you're trying to stay afloat.
Or if you're trying to get your boys their canoe thing,
you can take canoes down to the pool.
Don't ever tell the president of the pool that I did that.
Yeah, I mean, quite frankly, the patrons, the children,
whatever are gonna have to pass a water safety test,
just like they would at the deep end of any pool, right?
If you're gonna go off the diving board,
you gotta demonstrate you can swim back and forth,
or you gotta be able to demonstrate you can tread water
for 60 seconds or something like that.
And then you know that they're qualified to be there,
but it's only those patrons that are gonna use,
and if we make the 50 meter pool all deep,
If we choose, we decide that's the level of service we want to provide to the community,
then just realize that's going to limit it to those people and the others don't get
it.
I'm just trying to make, we're looking at balance.
Of course, absolutely.
And there's different elements coming into balance.
Yes.
Okay.
One more question from Councilmember Silva.
So one of the issues that was very important to us when we moved forward three years ago
was to ensure that the facility could support the all-city meat, and I'm not sure if you
can answer the question, but as designed or as proposed, can it support the all-city
meat, or if I need to ask Kevin that question.
What I can tell you, I can't answer it directly to the all-city meat on how whoever's running
that meat chooses to run it. What I can tell you is the pool can support short course or
long-course swim meets to FEMA, USA swim, NC2A, and to CIF standards, so can it support
a meet that way?
Sure.
So, for example, when we hear the thing about if we have a meet that's going to have 1,000,
we want to start from both sides, if we aren't starting from both sides, it's going to take
longer to run that meet.
The real issue then becomes if we're competing against other facilities to try to draw them
in to agree to have the meat at our facility, are we going to be successful?
But also know when we make that, when we jump off into that piece, now we're going to be
competing against all kinds of facilities.
Right now I'm working in Clovis for the school district there where we're working on our
fourth facility that has two 50 meter pools side by side.
down in Southern California, we have a facility down there, the William Willlett Aquatic Center,
where we have two 50-meter pools, we have a 6,000-square-foot.
It's a joint use with the school district, and now they're talking about adding perhaps
even another 50-meter pools that are going to be facilities that we're trying to compete
with to bring in when we say we want to have large ones.
So I didn't answer your question completely specific to that meat to say how do they want
to run it and-but it does meet the requirements for any swim meet.
So maybe I can ask Kevin the question because I really-this was an important issue.
So the all-city meet involves how many participants and how many lanes are currently used for
the all-city meet?
Right.
So we-between 1,200 and 1,400 swimmer participants, there are any number of spectators that come.
If you've been there, you've seen it.
Right.
We close off the diving well,
we close off the instructional pool
so people can't be in there.
And so the lanes in the 20 short course lanes are available.
Some are warm up, some are used for the main.
How many lanes do they run for races?
10.
So there's 10 lanes that they run.
So your question about can the new facility...
Can this support 10 lanes?
And the answer would be yes.
And it also, it could be warm up and cool down
either in the white colored...
Right, the water, yes.
the shallow water or you could keep the recreational pool open and use that for a warm-up or a
pool deck.
And there seemed to be some confusion in some of the public comment that we were receiving
by email that it won't support the city meetings, so I thought I was just going to ask the question.
So the other perspective would be pool deck.
Dennis talked about that.
The pool deck that we show is designed as larger than the pool deck at existing Clarkson
Center.
The landscaped area as designed is also larger than the landscaped area at Clark.
So, we believe it can accommodate that.
We will work closely with the Walnut Creek Swim Club
on this as we identify what changes may need to be made
to this facility to make it successful.
We're committed to working with them to make it successful.
So, that's our goal, but that's our belief
that yes, it can be supported.
Okay.
Let me take you to the next logical step then.
Could it support the county meet?
The...
Conference.
The...
No, so it could support conference meet because
The controversy that we support today
can be supported in the new facility, yes.
And county is currently being conducted in.
Aquilani's.
Aquilani's, I was gonna turn to Karen and say,
is that your dad?
And that pool is not any bigger than this,
the Aquilani's high school pool.
Well, yeah, Aquilani's high school pool
is smaller than this.
But there's also, if it's Aquilani's unified,
but Occalani's high school is a 33 or 35 meter long pool.
It's not a 50 meter pool at Occalani's.
So that's where they're running county meet, isn't it?
And again, we could run up to a state championship
in this 50 meter pool.
It would just be long gray shaped
based on the number of lanes.
Yeah, okay.
But you could have starts on both ends in the deep end
for the 25. Short course.
On the short course on both sides, yes.
Yeah, okay. Yes.
One other evaluation we did look at
as the existing bleacher area at the Heather Swim Farm today
is about 450 spectators.
And the configuration that we've shown here,
we can, excuse me, not 450, 480,
and we can easily accommodate 480.
Our estimate with what we're shown here
is we could probably get upwards of 750 spectators
for bleachers in the space that we're looking at as well.
And where would that be?
Where would that be on the diagram?
So if we take a look at this, say we were running short course,
for example, if we were running competitors on this side,
by competitive regulations, all of our spectators
would have to be on the other three sides, the pool.
And by bringing in movable bleachers,
you often do for large meats.
We looked at the space here and said
we could get upwards of about 750 patrons in there
with movable bleachers.
those five tier bleachers, which then do not require special ADA accessibility as part
of those.
Okay.
I'm going to call this and ask Kevin to come forward.
Okay.
Thank you, Mayor.
So as I indicated, we're wrapping up.
I know I appreciate your indulgence with our presentation.
This is an important last piece before Steve talks about the next steps, which is our partnership
of the Aquatic Foundation.
We wouldn't be here tonight as we are without the support
and partnership with the Aquatic Foundation.
So I want to talk a bit about their requests
and what the impacts may be, and you'll likely hear,
certainly hear from the Aquatic Foundation tonight
with their perspective.
So I'm going to start with their January proposal.
I'm not going to go through this in detail because it's changed,
but I want to use this as foundation.
So before the PROS commission met in January,
the foundation provided some feedback and input beyond what
that they provided in late fall of last year.
So increasing the 50 meter pool by two meters,
making it all deep and adding a bulkhead,
essentially making it a 52 meter stretch pool
with a bulkhead was their first proposal.
That would, I don't need to go into the detail here,
you heard it, that would make it a special use pool.
Adding four lanes to the rec pool,
making that water deeper,
adding essentially a multi-use recreational pool,
10 lanes total, six of which would be deep.
Asked us to consider flipping the rec pool, extending the footprint out west into the
green space, changing the location of the offices and locker rooms, increasing spectator
and in venue team areas, and adding a permanent scoreboard.
That was a January request.
It's modified since then after the pros meeting to what it is today.
This is in your packet.
I'm going to do my best to try to explain their proposal, and they're going to add to
this I'm sure, proposal one, increase the 50-meter pool by 2 meters, making it all deep,
right, so 7 feet at the shortest end, stretching that by 2 meters to include the bulkhead.
The key difference between this and January is that L shape.
So the L shape, as you heard, changes it from a special use pool to a community pool.
So it wouldn't need to be fenced.
It wouldn't need to be a specific purpose.
The alternative to number one is number two, which is take out the bulkhead, keep it all
deep, again, seven feet at the shallowest end with an L shape.
So that's the difference between one and two.
Those were their top two priorities.
Priority three was adding four lanes to the rec pool, making them shallow, so there'd
be 10 shallow lanes in the rec pool.
Number four, increasing the space around the 50-meter pool.
This is primarily for meets, for spectators, and for teams related to their events.
Number five is an option related to number three, which is add those, I'm just going
to call it four lanes.
Add four lanes to the rec pool, make those deep, and provide that maybe that seven feet
for the synchronized swim team, sorry, the artistic swim team for their practices and
meets and activities.
Number six, identify a location for the scoreboard.
the same as you saw before. Number 7, flip the orientation of the rec pool and push that
into the park. So that's their current proposal, and you'll hear about that tonight. We estimate
that to be about $4 to $6 million for the project costs. This is just a picture, we
should have had this up earlier, of what the North Natomas facility looks like. That's
that L-shape air proton that you were asking about, which extends into the stairs allowing
this facility to function as a non-special use pool, doesn't have to be fenced. So it
works well for their purposes. We can come back to that if you'd like. I won't go through
this in detail. There's a lot of numbers here. I'm going to drop down to the bottom comparing
the short course lane allocation. Today, we have 20, I'm going to call them shallow lanes
in the 50-meter pool. They're all 3, 7 to 5 feet, 3, 6 to 5 feet, if you will. Those
are shallow water. I'm going to say shallow is less than 7 feet. There are six deep lanes
in the diving well. So we'll call those deep lanes. And then the instructional pool is
all shallow. Flipping over to the design that's proposed by the city, I'm going to modify
the numbers here. Dennis always reminds me, there's a transition lane. So the current
proposal combining both pools has 13 deep lanes and 13 shallow lanes. So the 50-meter
pull would have 13 and 7 plus the six lanes in the recreational pull.
The Aquatic Foundation proposal A, which is the one that keeps the recreational pull all
shallow, has 28 lanes total, 10 of which would be shallow, 18 would be deep.
And then the last proposal, which has those additional four lanes on the rec pull being
deep, has six shallow lanes and 22 deep lanes.
So those are the differences there.
We can come back and talk about pull depths and other things later, but I'm just trying
move through this quickly. In sum, I just said this about the number of lanes that
are deep, number of lanes that are shallow. We can come back to this later. L-shape
means it's likely not a special-use pool. It would reduce the size of the pool
deck, because as you saw in this image, pushing out this L-shape goes into the
pool deck. So as a result, there would be less pool deck size based on this
proposal. And it would, as Dennis said, essentially move all of the deep water,
water, I'm sorry, all of the programming that would take place in the shallow water
of the 50 meter pool being that would now be all deep would move that into the recreational
pool.
And so there would not be any shallow water programming in the 50 meter pool.
So that's learn to swim, that's children and family recreation, that's adaptive needs,
that's youth camps, senior water exercise, et cetera.
So what are the impacts of that?
This would change the focus of at least the 50 meter pool, if not the facility, to be
be more focused on team competition and training.
The facility could host large-scale meets and events,
adding to community prestige and pride,
potential economic opportunity for businesses,
and it would be financial benefit to the host teams.
Those are all things that would benefit
teams, competition, without a doubt.
On the flip side, it would impact the park.
It would limit other activities that we could do
at the community center.
We talked about this at our last meeting.
Weddings, family reunions, birthday parties
that we might otherwise do at the community center.
If we're doing a large swim meet,
we probably couldn't do at the community center side,
meaning less revenue opportunities for the city.
And also we added this, we heard from a stakeholder,
which is the gardens, they are concerned today
about the noise coming from our aquatics programming.
Their activities could be affected weddings and otherwise.
So other impacts, Steve talked about this before,
it would add time to redesign the facility
and therefore cost on the design side.
So engineering estimates this is about $200,000 a month,
any delay that we have in the project.
We can talk about the project cost increase,
$4 to $6 million, our consultants will be here
to explain that if you'd like,
and it would increase our operating costs,
reducing revenue, and therefore our cost recovery
would be going down, and that's a value judgment, right?
Does the city, does the community want to have more
competitive activities, more meets, more all deep water in the 50-meter pool at the cost
that you see here.
So in sum, this would positively benefit the swim teams, without a doubt.
It would limit our shallow water programming in the 50-meter pool, pushing that to the
recreational pool.
It may, if we want to, if the community wants to, the Council wants to keep the shallow
water programming that we propose in the existing design, we'd have to add potentially more
or shallow lanes to the rec pool,
pushing it farther out in the park.
There would be some impact on the budget.
We don't know what that is yet,
but there would be additional cost.
So essentially the aquatic foundation proposal,
which makes sense from the team perspective,
would reduce flexibility and balance
that we see in the 50 meter pool as currently designed.
So I will stop there.
I expect if you have questions
about the aquatic foundation proposal
that they'll be up here later
if you wanna ask them questions.
One because we're almost time for a break and then I got about half of the deep versus shallow
Grid, can you go back to that? You said we could talk about it later. So
We're at the total short course at the bottom 26 lanes under the proposal from the consultant
12 shallow 14 deep
And it's 13 requests from the aquatics foundation
is 28 lanes in
In one version it's 10 shallow, 18 deep.
In another version it's 6 shallow and 20 too deep.
Did I get it all?
That's right.
So by having the L-shape, it changes the number of lanes in the 50
from 20 to 18 because that L-shape now no longer has
the two short course lanes at that end of the poem
because it goes to those stairs.
Okay, thank you.
Yes, one and then we're gone.
Okay. Whoa. We got a lot of public comment from Aquanauts and Aquanaut supporters about the
ability of the pool to support their fall show and programming. Just for now can you talk about
how it would accommodate the fall show? The fall show is something that we are
working hard to find a way to to support. It's important and we believe that's the way, and I'm
I'm going to go back.
The way that we're showing the artistic swim layout, which
is here, we believe that we can support a stage.
And is that on the right, Dennis?
I can't see with my gloves.
Yes.
So this would be the stage here that they presently have.
We used to have the mechanical room up here.
We moved that south so we could have more room for both the stage
and the backstage area.
You'd have bleachers here, bleachers here,
deep water here for the events so that you
could support the event.
It would be different than it is today.
You'd have to bring in, as we do today,
the lighting and the sound,
but we think that's supported here.
So yes, we believe that.
There may be times, I'm gonna flip the question,
during, away from the discussion about the show,
which is important.
For the synchronized swim team
to be able to use the 50 meter pool,
at the time that we have long course here,
is a challenge, which we acknowledge.
There's certain things that we know that we can't do,
but we're working with the teams
to try to figure out how we can accommodate that.
We developed a schedule which we can show you later
to try to lay out in all the different seasons,
all the different lanes, how we could make
the programs we do today work in the future.
So we can show you that.
I will just close and I'll let you come back to Steve.
We believe this pool can accommodate
almost everything we do today in a very successful way
because what we're doing is making those shallow lanes
that are in the 50 meter pool today,
which go to five feet, much deeper, 13 lanes.
Okay, thank you.
All right, it is break time now, you have 10 minutes,
and then we're starting promptly,
or we're gonna be here past midnight.
Not half the coat, so I have sleeping bag.
We are reconvening the meeting, and I have a little,
sorry, oh you, are you?
Yeah, we're gonna wrap up our presentation.
Okay, I'm sorry.
And then we'll open up to public comment.
So this is gonna be Steve's part,
but hello, it's me.
So I do want to clarify,
I was informed of one item in the presentation earlier,
which is the item WCF request B.
I was reminded that this is actually not
the Wanna Creek Aquatic Foundation proposal
specific to making those four lanes deep.
This is the Wanna Creek Aquanaut proposal,
so I want to clarify that.
But from that, I will talk about what,
based on the input that we've received,
based on analysis that staff has done,
what opportunities exist to make further changes
to the design that would be within budgets?
This is in your staff report, there's three items.
I'm gonna start from the bottom.
The one that's probably the most straightforward
is installing infrastructure
that would support the installation of a scoreboard.
So that's conduit, which is somewhat what we did at Larky.
You can install everything necessary
to install a scoreboard permanently
up to the point of installing a scoreboard.
So you could do that within the budget.
If you recall, an earlier proposal,
earlier request from the Aquatic Foundation
was relocating the changing rooms and the offices.
We believe we can do that within the budget, such
that we're moving, we're moving, if I can find it,
the changing rooms closer to the entrance.
Sorry.
So I don't have the mouse.
Thank you.
So we could, we believe we can move the changing rooms
over to, sorry, here, to this side,
so that rather than over here, which is where they are today,
making it a little bit more convenient
and closer to the entry.
So that's one thing that we believe we can do,
and we can talk about that more in detail if you'd like.
And then lastly,
we believe that the budget would allow us to add a bulkhead
to the design as you see it now.
So stretching the pool two meters,
Keeping the pool depth essentially the same,
but stretching it two meters,
adding that two-meter bulkhead,
which allows us to have more flexibility as we program
and do more activities within that 50-meter space.
And so those three items,
we believe that the budget would support
if that's something you wish to do.
And we can talk about that as we move forward.
So is Steve back?
Okay, no, it's fine.
So Steve will talk about next steps
and then we'll wrap up and yes.
Question on the last slide.
Sure.
If you stretch from 50 to 52 meters,
What depth of water can we, do we have options?
Well, once again, we could play with how much shallow water
to how much deep water.
All right, so we don't have to automatically make it shallow.
We could.
No, no, not at all.
Okay, great.
In fact, we would take the seven foot water depth
that we've been talking about.
Thank you.
For competition to make it eight feet.
Okay.
By code.
Great, thank you.
Go, please.
Sorry, Luella runs a really tight ship here.
So the next steps, so I guess at the very beginning,
Our goal is to get really clear direction from you
to move forward with this project
that will keep it on budget and schedule.
If you decide that you want some modifications
of what we're showing you,
it requires staff to go back and look at the design.
I'm not sure what all, how long it'll take it,
depends on what you ask us to do
and it would have an impact to the budget scope and schedule
and possibly to our CEQA document that we're moving on.
So any major changes beyond what we have right now
will definitely add cost, make the project go longer
and probably impact our CEQA document.
I'm hoping there are no more questions for a while.
Thank you.
All right, it is now time for public comment.
And public comment is limited to two minutes a person.
And we already have somebody lined up.
If you are representing a group,
I will, you are allowed to have 10 minutes,
but anybody else who is in that group may not speak.
There are three groups that have qualifications,
have declared that they have three or two people,
and they get to, oh, I got another card.
It's, I think, single.
If there is, if there is a,
If the three groups are the Aquanauts,
the Masters, and the Aquabears,
I have two cards for the Masters
and I have two cards for the Aquabears.
You can discuss amongst yourselves
who's gonna be the representative
if you decide to go for 10 minutes.
Diane, I'm your first.
I was gonna do it in a little different order
but we'll go this way.
Good evening, Mayor Haskew, city council and city staff.
I'm Diane Crowley Young
I live in Walnut Creek near the Larky Park Pool.
Today I am representing the Friends of the Ignatial Valley Library, of which I'm the
current president.
So as I'm speaking on behalf of the group, I'm requesting the group's allowed 10 minutes,
but I promise I won't take that nearly that long.
Just to refresh everyone's memory, here's the text of Measure O, to provide funding
to maintain and enhance the city of Walnut Creek's services and facilities, including
crime prevention, public safety, disaster preparedness, parks, open space, youth, senior
and arts programs, sustainability initiatives, local business support, downtown improvements,
replacing aging recreation, aquatics and community facilities at Heather Farm Park, and other
important services and facilities.
We all know that, but it's been a little while since the election.
So the Friends of the Ignacio Valley Library and the Walnut Creek Library Foundation, of
which I'm also a director, knew the passing of Measure O was crucial to the city's ability
to continue to support our libraries.
To help guarantee its success, we walked, donated, wrangled signs in support of Measure
O, and of course, voted.
Happily, Measure O passed, receiving over 65% of the vote.
I am here tonight to ask you not to forget
what our community voted for.
I respectfully ask you to continue to focus
on the mission you, previous councils,
and so many members of our staff and community
have worked so long and hard for.
Please don't allow a small but very vocal group
sway you from Measure O's stated goals.
On a personal note, I swam competitively in high school.
After team practice, I'd hop on my Trustee Schwinn Varsity
and ride to a local college's pool
For a second workout, boy, I wish I had that energy now.
In college, I became a non-competitive,
long-distance swimmer.
I believe in the value of organized swimming,
and I love a sparkling pool as much as anything.
And I would have killed to have a pool like that
all those years ago.
Swimming was a joy for me, but it was only a season
in my life, as it will be for so many of our current swimmers.
Please don't allow a small group to distract you
from the ongoing needs of our entire community.
Thank you.
Tom, I'm gonna ask you to come forward.
And then from after you,
I'm going to call by name by their carts.
So thank you.
Good evening, Mayor.
I ask you and council members,
my name is Tom Worthy and I'm a former pros commissioner
and chair of the Your Parks, Your Future
Citizens Advisory Committee.
I have been involved in the pool project
since the needs assessment in 2010.
I watched the February pros meeting with concern
where the aquatics foundation recommended
rejecting the current design and replace it
with a new design.
It is clear that the pool project has failed
to follow the guiding principles of the project laid out
in a November 15, 2016 agenda report.
They are balanced aquatics programs,
including instruction, fitness, recreation, teams,
and wellness, long-term commitments from partner or partners, shared capital investment, reduced
or eliminated city operating support.
If the new design from the Aquatics Foundation is accepted, the city faces unbalanced aquatics
programs so slanted towards competitive swimming that the remaining aquatics programs will
be marginalized.
The shared capital investment MOU would be cheaper for the city to walk away from since
the MOU is based on the current design and not a new design.
Operating support that will significantly exceed the half a million dollars a year for
the first five years of operation that HED consultants projected in 2016.
The City Council needs to refocus the project on these guiding principles to ensure that
the whole project planning is consistent with these four principles. This project
will be the most expensive project the city has ever done. We owe it to all
residents of Walnut Creek to make sure that it is accomplished efficiently
and cost-effectively. These four principles will guide the city to those
goals. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Now, after that the rules are different. I am
I'm going to start with Mike Heaney.
You are representing the Aquatic Foundation,
and that just means that everybody else
who's from the aquatic thing
doesn't get a chance to do anything.
So I'm gonna ask you to actually
seriously help me monitor this.
You all see what I'm talking about?
Yes.
You got it?
Got it.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you.
Please start.
All right, well, before I get to the task at hand,
I want to first thank Mayor Haskew, Mayor Pro Tem Darling, Council Member Silva, Council
Member Wilk, Council Member Francois.
The stand you took against Haytonite was inspiring and honorable.
I appreciate you doing that for your community.
Now, let's argue about a pool.
Obviously, there are differences of opinion in what this pool means and what it means
to each person in the room.
I took about 1,000 notes while the presentation was going on,
and I don't have time to present them all to you,
but I think it's important to make a couple of important
statements about what happened during the presentation.
One of the things I noted as an overall theme was
how we're introducing a lot of last minute changes
to design here, and that's not the intent
of our organization.
We understand this is a very expensive
very intensive process. However, the first time we met and received design information
on the swim center, the proposed swim center was in November of 2023. Immediately following
that we entered into the stakeholder meeting with staff where we proposed several changes
that might help improve the facility.
Those changes were noted that the pool was extended to 20 lanes.
Keep in mind that the pool wasn't extended, the lanes were shrunk and narrowed to accommodate
more lanes.
So there's no more water space that was put forward.
We felt that actually hurt the design more than helped it.
So in December, we received the new design showing the 20 lanes in the 50-meter pool
with the narrowed lanes, and in fact, it was on December 23rd that we received that two
days before Christmas and a week before New Year's where not much could happen.
We immediately got to work on new concepts and ideas where, in a cooperative effort with
the city, we could make some proposals that would be able to serve more of the
needs of the current users of the facility as well as future users. So
those are some important notes I had. I had a lot of other, oh, couple other quick
notes. In terms of pool depth and competition, USA Swimming Rule 103.2
section 2 championship USA swimming meets must be competed in six foot six
point seven feet of water across the length of the pool. So that's for a
championship level meet. So real quick as a just yeah you can host some meets but
you can't host large revenue generating meets in a shallow pool. FINA, the rule
regarding depth at the end wall. The rule states that a pool must be 1.3 meters at the
end wall of the pool. It doesn't say the starting end of the pool, it says the end wall of the
pool. The middle of the pool can be one meter, but I believe as the rule reads and as I interpret
it, 1.3 is required for the turn end as well. So those are a couple of my notes and onward
to my presentation.
It's with great respect and appreciation
that I thank staff, the project team, and all those
who worked to put this project together.
Again, many hours have gone into this.
Many years have gone into the dedicated work
that have brought us this far.
We as a community should have a lot of respect
for everything that has happened to create the design that
exists today.
It is such an improvement from the 25-meter potential facility
we were looking at several years ago.
And we're proud to have been a part of making that difference
to consider keeping a 50-meter pool in Walnut Creek.
The city of Walnut Creek has a unique and vibrant aquatic
community that's thrived inside the fences of the Clark Swim
Center for more than half a century.
When our parents' generation planned and built the Clark
swim center, it was not just for the 35,000 people who called
Walnut Creek their home at that time. It was to build a better
future. And those folks did exactly that. When the Clark
Swim Center opened, and for its first 20 years or so, it was the
place to go for recreational swim. The swim center featured
diving boards, water slides, a snack shack, and it quickly
became a community hub. It was also a place where grand swimming events were
hosted that attracted thousands of swimmers every year until changing
safety standards reduced its ability to do so. The competitive users of the team
did not decide to stop hosting competitions in Walnut Creek. The rules
mandated it. There was some discussion tonight about meets and could the all
city meet and conference meet be held at Heather Farms and I believe they can
with some adjustments to the usual protocol, of course, but those meets are
different than a USA Swimming Championship meet. The event swim are
all short distance, 100 yards or less, compared to USA Swimming meets that will
range from 50 yards or meters up to 1500 meters or 1650 yards. And the difference
in that is the amount of time it takes to host a meet and the amount of people
you can accommodate in a meat of that type.
So the parameters are a little different.
So yeah, the people we can accommodate,
but you can't run the meat.
We hope that we can build something now
that our future generations can enjoy,
that has the flexibility to evolve and grow
with our growing population,
and that honors the traditions
of our unique aquatic community.
With a current population of 70,000,
the needs of today must be considered
along with an eye to what aquatics in Walnut Creek
might look like in 2075. The WCEF does represent the three primary anchor
tenant teams that use Heather Farm and Clark Swim Center, but it also
represents the recreational swim teams and the broader swimming community. And
we know this and it's not just because of the many letters submitted supporting
us this week and over the past many years and it's not only because of the
and incredible people who came out tonight to represent the community, but also because
of the over 11,000 people who signed our 2019 Change.org petition to save our pools.
For over 50 years, the three anchor tenant teams that are represented here tonight have
served the community as pillars and represented the community favorably.
All three anchor tenant teams started as city programs that carried traditions forward
for the city as private service providers and they continue to thrive because of the
demand for such teams in Walnut Creek.
Our three anchor tenant teams not only represent the thousand or so swimmers currently on their
teams but are many thousands of alumni and their families.
These three teams stand to be most negatively impacted by the current design plan while
being expected to contribute financially to the project.
We've read the staff's future programming analysis and determined that the proposed
design would harm our three anchor tenant teams.
By limiting accessibility, the teams will be hurt by decreasing availability for training
and events, taking away membership, and eliminating fundraising revenue for a combined total of
roughly $225,000 a year.
facility user groups not mentioned in the program analysis are Adult Water Polo, Sea
Serpent Swim Team, Scuba Classes, and Water Aerobics. All of them are left out of the
programming models, which most likely will impact even further access for others. Those
teams currently aren't shown as having access to the facility, although they should be.
The Walnut Creek Aquatic Foundation proposal is looking to do two major things.
One is increase the size of the recreational pool.
We understand that if there's more deep water in one pool there should be more shallow water
in the other.
We don't want to reduce recreational opportunity.
We love the recreational features.
We love that it will bring young people to the swim center.
We're very much in favor of it.
And by adding four more lanes of shallow water to the recreational pool it ensures that there's
enough space for those who are too old for play structures, for adults who
prefer shallow water for swimming and fitness, and for expanded swim lesson
programming. This addition will serve the entire community. And we're also asking
that the 50 meter pool be designed to meet competition standards. That's my
time, so I'm gonna cut off and see if there are any questions.
council member Francois. Okay thank you mayor and thank you Mr. Heaney. You know
we have a good understanding I think of the what is can you explain a little bit
more of the why because it's what we've seen in a lot of correspondence is the
staff recommended plan doesn't meet the needs of the three user groups I think
you've alluded to it as well. Mr. Safeen talked about conflicts primarily between
the aqua nuts and long course swimmers which are aqua bears and masters, I guess.
So what what other what are the other pinch points that you see and how would
those be rectified by an all deep pool? So unfortunately, deep water doesn't give
you more programming space than shallow water. So in terms of spatial
utilization of the teams and how much water there will be for each of them to
use, the deep water doesn't change that at all. What it does change is it will
allow for revenue generating events for the teams, for the city, and for the
community, but those revenue generating opportunities would help to offset
to a degree the loss in revenue from having smaller program opportunities.
Any other kind of operational issues that are addressed by the deep water
that you can elaborate on. Well what the operational issues that are just I mean
conflicts but with the current design for the three teams. Right so honestly
the there's the deep water provides for primarily more competitive opportunities
more revenue generating opportunities it would allow for more integration of
perhaps water polo into the facility there are diving boards built in that
that could be used.
Keep in mind though, that anytime that new programming
is added, that current programming will be further shrunk
or eliminated.
So the deep water gives more flexibility
of where you would put all the programs
who need the deep water,
but again, it doesn't create more space per se.
The more space that we're asking council for
is in the recreational pool.
potentially as spillover space as more programs are added
into the deeper competitive water.
And then one of the asks in the Aquatics Foundation
request is for additional spectator space.
You've seen the sites, it has constraints.
What are we missing from the city standpoint
in terms of where you could add
additional spectator positions?
So one of the things that was asked,
and I think Dennis did a good job of showing
if you're competing at one end of the pool,
the bleacher's seating could be on the other ends
of the pool, the three other ends.
And that's true until you've been to a swim meet.
When you attend a swim meet,
you have the starting edge of the pool
where no spectators are allowed behind
for privacy purposes.
The side edge of the pool, which is dominated by officials,
computer operators and some coaches.
The far end of the pool,
which is typically dominated by other athletes
cheering for their teammates,
officials, things of that nature,
the other end of the pool would be wide open
for visible pleater seating.
So as you have a five level riser seat,
what you can see from that fifth level is pretty limited.
So in terms of spectator seating,
anything that you can elevate higher than that
is very beneficial.
And then finally, can you respond to the bulkhead?
And what that does or doesn't do for the teams
if the pool isn't all deep?
Good question.
So the bulkhead, by design, is there
to separate different areas of the pool
and to give you the opportunity to program
different lengths of the pool.
Now, one of the side notes about the bulkhead
that's important to understand is it has to be
in eight feet of water or deeper.
You can't have a bulkhead that somebody can't swim under
and get out of.
So they're not allowed in shallow water.
So in a shallow water end of the pool design,
the bulkhead is pretty limiting
because it can only sit down at the far end of the pool
where the deep water is.
The one benefit would be to be able to run a 25 meter course,
which the diving well currently at Heather Farms
is 25 meters and the master's team runs
a annual 25 meter championship meet
out of that space every year.
And that benefits them to $20,000 a year in revenue.
So it would keep intact that longstanding tradition.
And it would perhaps be helpful
in separating multi uses within a facility.
but that can also be done with an open or buffer lane.
But you're saying just within the deep end,
it can provide that, or the deeper end,
it can provide that separation.
Correct.
Okay.
Those are all my questions, thank you.
Thank you, and I'm gonna keep questions kind of under
maybe one or two max per person
and hold them as long as you can
because we've got lots and lots of cards.
I just had a quick question about,
It sounds like there is more than one FINA standard,
or is it, there's a USAA championship standard
and a local standard?
I'm lost in standards.
Right, so FINA is an international organization,
so therefore, everything is done metrically.
When we move to a yard dynamic,
that's governed by USA swimming,
or the NC2A or CIF section.
So there are different rule books you'll be reading
for the different types of course.
There are also different FINA standards,
depending upon the level of meat
that you're planning to host.
FINA, being an international organization,
makes many accommodations with pool design
and pool space and pool depth issues,
primarily for countries that, for lack of a better term,
can't afford better facilities,
or are stuck with aging facilities
that can't be renovated.
if you're in the middle of Paraguay
and you're hosting a swim meet
and your pool is only three and a half feet deep
at the turn end,
they will allow that as a competitive meet,
but they will not allow it
as a championship level competition.
Okay, so it's really the level of competition,
local versus championship.
Correct.
They look for a higher standard of the championship.
Okay.
All right, thank you.
I do have a question and correct me if I'm,
That's all it was going to be.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Did I hear you say that the length of the pool
makes a significant difference to the organizations that
are running the, for example, aqua bears and other people?
What do they intend to do with the additional funds
that they get?
Help to pay off the $3 million MOU.
OK.
We are private non-profit organizations
that live on a shoestring budget.
And the fundraising, it will be an important component
of being able to reimburse you for what we've promised.
And with a loss of revenue coming in through programming
due to less access, there is no other way
for those teams to generate the revenue
to do what you're asking.
Okay, thank you.
All right, thank you very much for your...
You bet.
I'm assuming you're going to stay around in case new...
Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah.
I would like for Juliette Moore to tell me what organization she is referring to by ACH.
I mean WCH.
Is Juliette Moore even here?
Yes, she's coming.
Okay.
Okay, so I will put her in the WCA, I will put her in the WCA set.
You need to tell me when you start, who is, how you want it handled.
Two minutes, oh hi, I don't need you there right now, thank you.
You're going to have to tell me, you're going to have to tell me how you're dividing your
time.
Do you either get 10 minutes for one speaker or two minutes for each individual speaker?
you understand what I'm asking?
Thank you.
All right, now we're going to do individuals, as far as I know.
And I'm going to read some names.
And would you please stand up over there in the order
I read your names.
Brett Kawatomi, Nick Aronson, Roger Smith, and Jessica Freels.
And if I catch and break in the 10-minute rule,
I'm not going to be happy.
Okay, then you have to, oh, thank you for being honest.
Would you get together and decide what you're gonna do,
whether they're 10 minutes or two minutes each?
Okay, thank you, I'll move you to a different pile.
Thank you very much, that's honorable.
Yes, sir, go ahead.
Give me your name, please.
I'm Nick Aronson, thank you, Mayor
and City Council members.
Community input, I think the program still needs work.
I think from what we're hearing here,
I've been to the other two meetings on this
where we had talked about the pool and the main facility.
And the main thing I'm hearing,
and I'm not part of any swim group.
I don't really swim.
I don't care that much about swimming to be honest.
But it sounds like everybody wants more rec swimming.
They want more comp swimming.
And I think by having these meetings
where we separate out the community facility and the pool,
it kind of makes it, it obscures the fact
that we're spending 60% of all the money,
of our money on the community center.
And at the community center meeting,
there wasn't a big clamoring for opening more wedding space
and more auction space for schools, all that stuff.
But here, there's a whole bunch of people
saying, hey, we need more swimming.
I was shocked to hear that Clovis is putting in
four 50-meter Olympic-sized pools.
Surface area is not the same as program.
So talking about surface area is kind of strange.
Stakeholders, we have 2-thirds of the program we had before
and one and a half times a community center.
of like everybody wants more pool, but no one's saying, hey, I need more spaces for
weddings and more spaces for, you know, corporate Christmas parties. So it just
seems strange in the balance of what we're spending our money on versus what
there's demand for. So I just want, you know, the multifamily community members,
they want rec swimming, I like rec swimming, it's great. You know, I just
think, you know, be courageous, do what is demanded and, you know, put enough pool
space in there. I don't think we really need more, you know, wedding spaces. Thanks.
Thank you. Next, please. Good evening. My name is Roger Smith and I'm a Wellnet
Creek resident. I've also been a competitive swimmer since I was eight
years old. I'm a master swimmer and I'm a master water polo player and competing
in international water polo tournaments with the masters groups. I have three
generations of swimmers in my family here in Wellnet Creek now. Myself, my
daughter, my grandson, and my granddaughter. As you know and you've heard tonight,
Walnut Creek is a huge aquatic community. I've been kind of surprised by that
because I came from another part of California a few years ago. Besides the
Aqua Bears, the Walnut Creek Masters, the Aquanuts, there's the 680 Driver Water
Polo Club, which is a youth water polo club primarily here in town, and I know
from their perspective, they are doing everything they can to find water space.
They have to borrow, beg, and steal from, you know, fortunately some of the local
high schools, but some of them don't support that. And then you have all the
recreation swim teams in the community. We talk about the competitive stuff at
Heather Farms, and you talk about multi-generational, multi-housing. Most of
those apartments will have some type of pool, and they can do things there, but
But you also have all these communities that have the rec swim clubs that people can join
and they also have their own swim teams.
As we've heard tonight, several years ago, not particularly this body, but the council
prior to this or councils prior to this commissioned several studies and those studies told you
that it wasn't adequate what you had then and it's the same thing you have now.
So obviously, whatever you design now, if it's the same or less, it's not gonna be
adequate for the population as it grows.
You know, I hate to do Google things, but if you do a search and you say, what are the
best competitive pools in Contra Costa County?
It's not us.
Thank you.
Jessica?
Good evening.
I'm Jessica Freels.
Good evening, I'm Jessica Freels. I live on the other side of Walnut Creek at the
Red Gear States area. First of all, you all need a martini bar because these
meanings go a lot faster. Anyway, my father built a lot of the apartment
complexes on Oak Road and Treat Boulevard, and so I started in one of
those at Oak Road station. I am one of those silent majorities that Steve was
talking about earlier. The swimming programs in this community saved my son.
I was a single mom and I needed a place for him to go and learn how to be a teammate
Learn how to be an adult. He is a proud aqua bear
He is a proud Los Lomas night
And he is a proud regular at and two of his coaches are sitting in this room right now and those people had a profound effect
On him. I beg of you to look at an alternative and stop trying to
Shove this through because at the end of the day, it's going to serve the community better and we don't need a giant community center
It will never pay off the way that pool will.
Because building students and young people in this community
is what it's about.
I guarantee you there is more than five people
in this room who are raising their children
in the town they grew up in.
I grew up less than 10 minutes away from here.
So did a lot of the people in this room.
We want to stay here.
This is a great place to be.
Please, I beg of you, take the time to talk and look
at this again, because it's not the right thing.
and I did not put a lawn sign for Measure O on my lawn for that building. Thank you.
Emily Moore, Christine Lee, Stephen Moore, and Kimberly Talvola, correct me when you get here,
please. Hello, I'm Emma Moore and I'm a resident of Walnut Creek and for the past 10 years I have
spent countless of hours swimming and training at Heather Farms with the Walnut Creek Aquanauts.
Emma, can you pull the mic down just a little bit more? There you go, no problem. Thank you.
We wanted to hear what you're saying. Tomorrow, actually, my team and I will be
going to our qualifying meet for U.S. Nationals and have been working towards bringing home our
19th national title. We would not be able to do this without a dive well in Heather Farms.
I support the Walnut Creek Aquatic Foundation's proposal design, which will meet the needs
of the Walnut Creek Aquanauts, Aquabears, and other swim teams currently using the aquatic
center at Heather Farms. The city's current proposed design does not meet the current
needs of the swim teams, as you have seen, and the Aquanauts need our own pool, one that is not
shared with the swim teams. As you saw in the examples, how would we swim when the
swim teams are doing their long course? As our practice times overlap, so please
support the WCAF proposal to not just continue the success that our clubs
bring home, but to continue changing the athletes lives. Thank you. Hello my name
My name is Steven Moore.
I'm a homeowner and resident of Walnut Creek, also
a business owner.
And I've really involved in the aqua nuts
in the helping and volunteering.
But I also am part of the USA Artistic Swimming Foundation
that helps raise money for the Olympic team
to get them there.
So I know much about the sport and everything there.
Over 50 years ago, Walnut Creek did a bold move
in building that aquatic center.
They didn't have any balance in their thought process
to go to that. They just built really exceptional pools and exceptional facility, which drew
in exceptional teams. Walnut Creek has some of the best teams in the country, world-class.
When we did Measure O, we were told that we were going to get at least what we have now,
and this is far from it. The splash pad, whatever you want to call it, the lazy river, the canal,
whatever new name they come up with it, was never before here. The facility over at Larky
open three months a year for two to three hours a day, so if they're saying it's overwhelmed
with people they should be opening up longer hours doesn't seem to be that way.
So to continue the program that we have here seems to be adding in all these extra bonus
recreational facilities which we don't really need because most apartment buildings and
condos in this area have their own pool structures in there.
It's not like we lacked it.
We used them during COVID to actually swim.
So all the things that go there don't add up.
And also the counting of swimmers,
when they count swimmers for laps
versus the aqua nut swimmers that are there every day,
they should be counted the same.
Every day that they're there, they're counted as a swimmer.
That would raise the numbers up for usage of the pool.
And the amount of money that the meats bring in
more than offsets any of the costs
and the difference between rec pool versus sports pool.
Because during the fall show, families come in,
they spend money in the city, helps the businesses here,
you get the taxes from them.
It's a huge, it's a huge amount of money.
Okay, thank you.
No, that was his mistake.
I'm not, I'm here as a private citizen.
Hi, I'm Christine Lee, I'm a physician
and a long time business owner and resident
in Walnut Creek for over 25 years.
And I have several concerns about this project.
One of my major concerns is also about the parking,
because right now there's a written down of parking
at Heather Farms, and I know the city is growing,
but at least there's enough parking for the handicapped
where you drop off so they can actually have easy access
into the pool area, and the kids actually,
because they swim really late at night,
they are able to get their drop offs there,
but what I'm very concerned about this new center
is that there's not enough handicap parking at the front
to drop off, and for people to park who are handicapped.
And also, the parking is so remote.
They have tons of little kids who are gonna be coming
out of practice late at night,
who are gonna be having to cross the street far away,
and I think that's a real safety hazard.
One of my other major concerns is, you know,
it is really important that people know
that with the aqua nuts, they do lots of acrobatics,
They throw people high up in the air and far out,
and there definitely cannot be two teams
in the pool at the same time.
They definitely need to have two deep pools
because they have to be able to practice
without worrying that they were throwing these kids
up in the air, and if you had another swimmer
or other team there, I mean, there would be a catastrophe
if you had someone fall on top of an unsuspecting swimmer,
and you can't see that.
And so that is a major concern
and why they really need to have two deep pools.
And I think that the proposal to have more deep
in the rec pool would definitely help with that.
Also, there's not enough deck space
because right now at Heather Farms,
they have lots and lots of grass where people can spread out
because there's just not enough room on the deck.
So you need to have a lot more space
for them to have their performances,
the fall show and the competitions.
Thank you very much.
Steven, oh, you're not Steven.
I'm sorry?
Are you Kimberly?
Yes, I am.
Oh, all right, well, that's okay, all right.
Okay, hello.
My name is Kimberly Talvola.
I'm a resident of Walnut Creek.
I own two properties here, a condo and a house.
And my daughter swims for the Walnut Creek Aquanauts.
And I'm here because I wanna voice my support
for the WCAF proposal.
I wanna make sure that all the competitive swim teams,
especially the Aquanauts,
the space that they need for their program.
For my daughter and for her teammates and her coaches,
the swim team is their life.
She spends hours of her life after school every day
going to practice.
It keeps her out of trouble.
It gives her a focus.
She's already talking about college applications
and looking for scholarships.
And so I don't want that value to those,
to the swimmers and to the people that devote their lives
to this sport to be underestimated with
or compared to recreational swimmers that might use a facility a couple days in the summer for a few hours.
For the competitive swimmers and the aqua nets, this is their life and this is extremely meaningful to them.
And the numbers, too, might not reflect the true use of the facilities for competitive swimming.
My daughter is the only one in my family that swims at the pool, but I go to all her events.
our family goes to all their events, our relatives, our friends, they go to the
swim show, they go to the meets, they go, I take her to practice. So and we all see
her grow, we all see her thrive at the sport, so it affects all of us even if
we're not like a number. Not to mention just the cost, looking at the revenue
numbers and the cost of operating, the cost of building it, I think a lot of
value of the competitive swim team is what the prestige that it brings to the
city. I didn't grow up in this area. I had first heard of Walnut Creek when I
was in college and I heard about the Walnut Creek synchronized swimming team.
I didn't know it was called Aquanets. I just knew it was called Walnut Creek.
And so I ended up getting a job in the Bay Area and the first city that came to
mind and moved to was Walnut Creek because I had heard about it. Thank you.
Thank you. All right Stephen Moore, Nathan Wiebe, Audrey Gee and Tom Bannis.
Oh he did, okay sorry I apologize. So I'll call another name and that would
be Richard Galton. Richard I'm Nathan. Say what? You're Nathan. Yeah I'm Nathan, can I go?
Oh yeah. Excellent. Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, Council members, I'm Nathan Webe. I'm a
Walnut Creek resident and I'm also Chief Information Security Officer of
Contra Costa County. I'm not here in my official role as a government official.
I'm here in my private capacity. I want to talk about the reason that I am here
today though. I'm here because of swimming. See, I have cystic fibrosis. I'm
considered by the state of California to be genetically handicapped I apologize
the reason I'm here is because of swimming and I'm not here for me
necessarily I'm here for all these teams I have the privilege of you know being
older I have decent income but a lot of kids here who are on these teams are
here to help protect their health and to help survive there are many mental health
crises taking place now due to lack of connectivity between individuals and these teams are a lifeline for folks.
So I ask please don't cut down the amount of availability for these teams because they're they're lifelines for folks.
That's all I have. Thank you. Thank you.
Next.
Hello council members. Thank you very much as well as to all the city staff. My name is Audrey G.
I am a long time city resident, lived here for over 50 years,
business owner, current chair of the chamber as well as past president of the
Contra Costa Bar Association. I am here in my personal capacity and speaking to
you that way. I have three things that I'd like you to think about. One is the
of course deep water that we're looking for, for 50 meters and seven feet deep.
Two, if you're like not quite sure about that, if we can look further in terms of
the $46 million projected cost and get further detail
and ask staff for more of those details so we understand.
Because honestly, if we're building it three feet deeper,
I'm questioning how you get to the $46 million.
And then also, the possible revenue recapture
the potential water polo practice in USA water polo
tournaments, such as Junior Olympics can bring.
The other alternative that Councilmember Darlene
had talked about and then also Mr. Dennis had talked about today was if you take
the the pool that's attached to the splash zone and then you attach it to
the big pool then all of a sudden that becomes 65 meters right and then that
accomplishes both shallow water as well as deep water enough and sufficient for
the competitive teams so that's a possible alternative that other people
haven't talked about, but as Mr. Dennis has pointed out, that would solve
everyone's problems. So I'd like you to think about that. The other thing is
really in terms of the economic benefit that would actually accrue to the city,
I put together the economic indicator impact analysis that was from
Destinations International for you to take a look at. There's about five to ten
from just one event million dollars and then it doubles for that from there on
if you actually include all of the other different meets that we're talking about
and tournaments so there's a huge economic impact thank you very much
thank you Tom is Tom gone okay Tom's gone so he doesn't get to talk Richard
Galtin, Barry, B, thank you, Carlos, D, Ruba, and Susan,
Del, D, oh they're related. So Susan and Carlos. Okay, Richard, show up. Is there
Richard? Going, going, gone. Barry? Good evening. My name is Barry Bear. I'm a Jew
and I'm very comfortable here this evening. I do live in Moraga and I feel
comfortable there as well. I am a master swimmer and I'm over at
Heather's three to four times a week. I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoy it. One of
One of the things that's missing in this proposal, and you folks are responsible for the cost
and income, is a very important number before you can make any decision I feel.
That's the revenue a major swim meet brings to Walley Creek.
If you have a major event of aqua nuts, aqua bears, and masters three a year, probably
half closer to four or five. Every hotel in this town would be full from Friday
through possibly Sunday night and I'm sure you receive some hotel revenue from
taxes for visiting Walnut Creek. I would really garner that number before you
make a decision as to what type of facility you want. The town manager
talked about values earlier and I want to talk about youth values and the
importance to the community here. Very simply, these programs cater to all use.
Male, female, low income, high income, live in apartments, live in a home. I come
down there early, about an hour early on Saturday workouts, for one reason. To
watch these coaches work with the youth. It's amazing. They're coaching them,
they're learning how to be on a team, they're learning how to take on
responsibilities, and then they turn into college students, in many cases under
swimming scholarships, they come back during the holidays to swim with us. It
caters to the entire community and we as adults have a great responsibility to
the development of our youth. Thanks so much. You're welcome. Okay I'm all
confused now. I'm gonna call the Aquinas, Carlos, Carlos, oh Carlos you're
waiting. I'm sorry I apologize. Good evening. Carlos de Riviera, I'm just a
resident of Wanna Creek. Oh not just a resident. Just a resident of Wanna Creek. I voted for
I shop downtown so I pay for the taxes that the metro passed and I swim.
I'm not a competitive swimmer, I just swim recreationally and my
concern was always access. You know making sure that the new plans will have
the same access or better access because right now the pool is well used and
finding space is difficult sometimes.
So that's my concern.
The other polarity I think we need to consider
is that not only is any major redesign
cost money and time, but also it extends the life
that we need to support the old pool.
And that means more breakdowns in the next two years
before the new pool is available.
So we should be considering those polarities.
What I think one solution I think has been brought up before
is it is a logistical issue, right?
How can we make all these different stakeholders whole?
How can we rearrange schedules?
How can we make the right size pool or portion of the pool
available for the right organization?
But again, without extending the timeline to get the new pool,
is my own concern.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Hi, I'm Susan de Rivera, and I live in Walnut Creek.
And I'm not affiliated with a team,
but I do year-round swim.
And I did vote for Measure O specifically
because of the pool.
And I think it's great everybody's here
supporting the whole pool situation and updating it.
One thing I hope that we have enough shallow water,
because not everybody is comfortable swimming in deep water.
And also as a registered nurse, we often
ask our patients or tell our patients
it's a great activity for people with joint issues
and rehabilitation issues to go to the pool.
And it's just a great place to be.
And it's affordable for most people.
So I just hope you keep that in mind.
There's a lot of seniors I see out there, too.
They do a lot of water running in the shallower ends.
And so anyway, just something to consider.
Thank you.
Thank you.
All right.
Did the aqua nuts come up with their decision
about 10 minutes, or are they doing two apiece?
I was prepared to keep it to under two.
However, what I can do is just ask maybe so that my president
can speak as well.
But maybe just the people that are here from the aqua nuts
could just wave and just, and not everybody needs to speak.
Maybe some of them will be willing to pass
on their public comment, if that would be helpful.
But I was only prepared to speak for two.
I honestly didn't catch all the people who were waving.
So I'm going to trust your team is honorable as everybody,
as the standard is now.
Yeah.
I'm just going to speak for two minutes.
Hopefully they will.
They can come and use their two minutes.
OK.
So my name is Kim Probst, and I'm the head coach of the Walnut Creek Aquanauts.
And I've been a member of the Aquanauts and the Masters for the last 25 years.
And I just did a really quick, we have about 100 year round swimmers,
about 150 annually, 30 Olympic alumni.
But anyways, of our 100 swimmers, I try to do a quick rough estimate,
and I try to be conservative.
But I think just the Aquanauts alone were the smallest team.
I think that's about 30,000 swims a year.
So, we're half of the 65, just the smallest team.
So, that's how big the swim teams are here.
However, we do totally understand the need for the balance
because that's where our recruiting comes from.
So, we're all on board with wanting a balanced facility
and that's why we're here because what we believe
the Walnut Creek Aquatic Foundation has brought forth
does represent balance.
The piece of that puzzle that I was going to speak uniquely to
was the rotating of that pole, just to give us
some extra deck space.
I think when we say things like the Aquabears
can host their meets, there are physically enough lanes,
or so specifically what I'm talking about,
we could host our show.
You could fit the stage right here.
We could maybe fit 500 people in the facility,
but not watching the actual show.
So, it's our livelihood.
It's our biggest recruiting,
and so for recruitment and retention,
and for the livelihood of our club.
And I'm not speaking, I'm here representing the Aquanauts.
Of course, the show is our baby,
but also for the other events,
I'm sure they would want spectators too.
So, that's it.
Can I, Ms. Probst can I ask you a few questions?
Yes, oh, there, come back.
You mentioned a number of Olympians, is that right?
Over 30.
Of which you are one?
Yes.
Which games did you compete in?
The Beijing 2008 Olympics.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
Can you speak specifically about kind of your concerns
with the pool and how it affects the aquana?
Yeah.
So I think we totally understand that things
are going to change and we need to be very flexible.
And we're trying to be team players
and we're trying to be flexible.
Although it's hard not to be passionate,
it's hard not to be sad, knowing that we're
the best teams in the whole country.
And what we do for a living is we go around to other pools,
we see what they have, it's hard not to be jealous.
And that's just the reality.
And we're not hoping for anything even close to that,
but what we're hoping for is to be able to swim
year round like we can now.
So the biggest concerns I can say are,
I'm sure we could find a way to make it work
when, for example, it's long course season.
However, we can't really do our sport.
Can the kids exercise?
Can they get wet?
Yes.
But can we do our sport competitively?
No.
Will we maybe have to live with that?
Yes.
But is it fair to these athletes who
are trying to become national champions?
Maybe not.
I'm having a really hard time picturing
where any spectators will go.
I see on the thing where the stage is,
but I just see a skinny sliver and we're creative.
We'll find a way, I just don't know if it will be anything
as big and as grand as what we're used to
and then again, that's just,
that's how we bring kids in
and that's how we keep the club running
and it's also our biggest form of retention.
So I just don't see where more than a handful of people
can sit on the side with the current proposal.
I don't wanna put words in your mouth,
Is the concern more with the show than the actual day-to-day practices?
Actually, my bigger concern, honestly, is day-to-day, because that's what we do.
That's our life. However, a pretty close second is our show, because that's how we
bring kids in. So I just don't see spectator availability here.
It's more deep water, but it's shared. Is that part of the concern that now,
essentially, the diving well is for the aqua nuts when it's not used for rec
swim and you have access to larky too. So is it sharing the deep water that is of
concern and if you can elaborate on why?
No, no, we're fine with sharing the space. It's just that when you put
us into the 50 meter pool, well right now the Aquabirds take the whole
entire 50 meter pool, so now we're about to take up the whole deep end, so where
does the rest of their team go? So at some point one of us has to shrink, and
usually usually that's us but you know maybe to be them but I don't want it to
be them either but we don't all fit. I understand. Thank you. Was there another
question for the council? Okay thank you. Yep I've lost track. Are we yeah come on
you were so honest you get two minutes no matter what. All right thank you. Good
evening Mayor Haskew, Walnut Creek City Council members, city staff. First of all
I just wanna say as a Wanda Creek resident,
my name is Brett Kawakami.
I'm the president of the Wanda Creek Aquanauts.
I do stand in support of you and the council.
And I think in the end,
we're all working towards making the best community we can.
So I just wanna say that.
I think I wanna take a little bit different attack
in my time here.
So I think others have expressed what we need.
And if you can just take my word for it
that we did work together,
we tried to come up with a compromise that worked for us,
but also addressing the needs of the city and the community.
And so what I really want to focus on
is why others have focused on what we need.
I wanna focus on why we need this.
And I think we have the right vision
for this Aquatic Center.
It's really to serve the community,
to inspire youth to learn swimming and to love swimming.
And so what I want to say is that what the Walnut Creek
Aquanauts, we are able to provide that sort of beyond,
you first learn how to swim, but then it's a bigger,
what can you do with that when you achieve that?
And I think that's one thing that is aspirational.
The fact that any youth swimmer can look up and enjoy a WCA
and aspire to be an Olympian someday.
I mean, that's realistic.
That's not an exaggeration.
And the way our program is designed,
we can provide the opportunity at a very within reach
for all the community, so thank you for that time.
I just want to provide that.
I think that's what we hopefully provide
in the other swim groups as well,
is that aspirational.
Okay, stop.
Thank you.
So thank you very much,
and I hope we can all be synchronized in our efforts
to the front.
Thank you.
All right, Marlow and Chloe,
who also get two minutes each.
I'm a swimmer at Heather Farms for the Walnut Creek Aquanauts.
I've swam for the Aquanauts for five years now.
Just recently, I've switched to homeschooling so that I can train even more, because, like
stated before, artistic swimming is my life.
To me, Heather Farms is my second home.
I go to the pool more than I see my friends and family.
When I do see my friends and family, I ask them to come watch me at Heather Farms.
I asked them to come watch me at Heather Farms.
I've had so many friends and family come to WCA events
at Heather Farms, including the fall show,
Celebration of Champions, Valentine's Showcase,
Week in the Creek summer camp, competitions, exhibitions,
and more.
A far dream of mine is to go to the 2028 Olympics.
Who knows what will happen in the future,
but Heather Farms has previously supported many aqua nuts
in becoming Olympians and Olympic champions.
Walnut Creek is known across the nation
for being the home of champions.
When I go to competitions and others see my skill,
they ask me where I'm from.
With a proud smile, I always say, Walnut Creek.
When people hear that, they gasp in awe
that I am from the prestigious club of the Aquanauts.
Heather Farms is known nationwide.
When other swimmers from across the country
come to Heather Farms, they often say
that it has been their dream to come and train
at the home of the Walnut Creek Aquanauts.
I get to live that dream every day,
and I couldn't imagine striving for my goals and dreams
anywhere else than at my home, Heather Farms.
I support the Walnut Creek Aquatic Foundations proposed design, which will meet the needs
of the Walnut Creek Aquanets, Aquabears and other swim teams currently using the Aquatic
Center at Heather Farms.
The City's current proposed design does not meet the current needs of these swim teams
or the Walnut Creek community.
Please support the WCAF proposal.
We really need a new Aquatic Center at Heather Farms that will continue to support all our
youth, athletes, community, and our big, big dreams.
Thank you. Mentally I'll ask my council members to just take what was heard and multiply
it by two. Does that work?
Okay, thank you. Don Hannah and Veronica Turepi?
Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem and council members. My name is Don Hannah. I am a former diving
coach at Heather Farms when there was a diving team there.
And I want to stress that I'm here in Walnut Creek having grown up here.
After spending 26 years overseas with a wife who was an Olympic swimmer, qualified for
Olympics I should say, I did not qualify for the Olympic trials and with children who swam
through colleges and for whom swimming was an incredible part of framing their life.
but not just in Walnut Creek, but rather around the world,
which gives us a comparison to understand
how extraordinary the environment is here,
relative to what you can find in almost anywhere else
in the world.
And I've lived in six different countries in Swamman
and been involved in swimming programs in all of those.
And part of that involves a kind of broad base
that we have in the cabana clubs,
but it also involves creating that competitive level
that leads to excellence.
And it's something that, as others have said,
creates a reputation for Walnut Creek that is extraordinary,
that is one of the main attributes that separates
this place from anywhere else in the world.
And it would be, I think, incumbent on us
as a public good, as well as an economic benefit,
as a macro-economist economics is close to my heart,
that we create the environment that
continues to make that element not just
the pinnacle of Mount Diablo, but the pinnacle for Walnut
Creek, that aquatics has provided in the last 50 years.
So please support doing that.
Thank you.
Good evening.
You're going to need to move the mic down.
Yep.
My name is Veronica Cerruti, and I
am a proud parent of an artistic swimmer
with the WCA aqua nets.
My family has spent the majority of our time and money
in Walnut Creek for the past eight years,
because my daughter is here six to seven days a week,
training three to four hours a day.
Heather Farms Pool is her second home.
We support the foundation's proposal
for the new Aquatic Center.
In order for the WCA to continue its incredible
and world-renowned training programs, fundraisers,
community performances, and annual fall show,
we need more space, deep water, and lots of it.
For example, as you've heard earlier,
when the long course season runs,
WCA would be unable to practice in the larger pool.
And while the numbers presented are important, they don't tell the entire story.
Walnut Creek Aqua Nuts bring positive attention and publicity to the city of Walnut Creek
itself when they travel locally, regionally, nationally, and even internationally for competitions.
Walnut Creek is in our name.
When our swimmers arrive at a pool, others take notice.
They know they are about to see the best of the best.
Travel from all over the world and sometimes even relocate here to train with our Olympic
coaches.
Thousands of people attend our performances each year and spend money locally while doing
so.
Our swimmers with Olympic dreams need additional pool space, more pool time and deep water
to train.
Please support the foundation's proposal, which would give the WCA the best option to
continue and grow its award-winning programs for the foreseeable future.
Those programs bring people, money, and favorable attention to the city.
Thank you.
Thank you.
All right.
The Aqua Bear team, did they decide whether they're taking 10 minutes for one or two minutes
per person?
And your result is 10 minutes per one?
Well, who else is here for Walnut Creek Aqua Bears?
Anyone want to speak?
speak? Okay I will take as much time as I guess it takes me to get through it. I
don't have ten minutes I don't think. I am the president of Walnut Creek
Aquaburras. I am a business owner. My family owns a business in Walnut Creek
in Rossmore. I also run Woodlands swim team so I'm very familiar with rec
swimming. I grew up on Scottsdale swim team as well as Walnut Creek Aquaburras.
as I was a coach for Wanacreek Aquabares,
so I am very familiar.
I also swam in college.
We've been in existence, our team, for over 40 years,
and actually 50, 60, before Wanacreek Aquabares,
and have been a staple, and I feel more than a staple
of the city of Wanacreek,
but also part of the culture of Wanacreek.
Whenever I go anywhere, everyone always says,
hi, Heidi, hi, Heidi, and friends are like,
how do people know you?
You can say that we have 200 swimmers,
But in reality, we have thousands of swimmers.
We have thousands of swimmers that are now my age, that
are older than me, that are little kids,
that are five years old, that go from non-competitive all the way
up to the Olympic level swimmer.
One thing that I want to talk about is the proposed design
will force us to cut 40 swimmers from a program that
currently has a wait list.
Mayor Silva I listened in 2014 to you talking about this day that you were
hoping that we could someday have a pool and how it was needed in your address to
the city and you talked about the importance of programming to you and I'm
so grateful for that. I really that's why we moved we moved out into Brentwood
and we came back to Walnut Creek because the programming in Walnut Creek is
is exceptional and kids have always come first
and programming has always come first.
So we really appreciate that and that perspective.
This design would ask us to cut 40 swimmers from a program
and ask them to travel to neighboring cities
such as Arinda, San Ramon, Danville, Concord
and other teams who have facilities
that can currently accommodate them.
That would also be a huge financial loss for us
of $144,000 a year.
And so how do we afford, one of my things as a president
is being fiscally responsible and not just thinking
about how can I afford to run and pay salaries
for coaches this year, but also in 10 and 15 years.
There's a huge shortage of coaches in our area.
If you talk amongst rec coaches, we can't find coaches.
And I think a lot of it is that the cost of living
has become so unaffordable for coaches
that we can't afford to live here anymore.
Whereas before, when Mike maybe started,
He could buy a home for $200,000 or $300,000.
Now we're asked to buy a home for a million dollars.
How can a coach afford that?
So I foresee salaries increasing,
and one way that teams are able to afford those salaries
is by hosting meets.
At Woodland Scabana Club, where I am,
we generate a large part of our income
with the revenue we make on what their dues are,
but also the ability to host a meet.
We've talked a lot about FINA and Dennis has talked a lot about hosting meets and the ability
to host meets.
What we haven't talked about is how we're able to host meets.
I want to talk about that a little bit.
Pacific Swimming puts out a list of meets.
USA Swimming puts out a list of meets.
As a representative of our team, we then put in a bid.
In that bid, we say, we can do two six-lane pools or two, what is it, that we're able
to do with the new proposed two six-lane courses?
six-lane courses. So I'd put that in the bid. I'd say we could do two six-lane
courses to host this meet. I wouldn't even write the bid because it would be a
waste of my time because they wouldn't even look at that. They would, we can't
host to meet. We wouldn't be able to get through the number of summers. So we've
talked about so much of FINA and world aquatics. It's pointless in our area
because for Pacific Summings, which is just regional, it has to be a minimum of
two ten-lane courses to even win a bid. And so I wouldn't even be able to host
like a small regional meet. Our team wouldn't be able to host a small
regional meet, which leaves us exactly where we are now. We can run the city
meet, we can run conference, both of which I'm a coach at, as well as a parent of
six kids at. We don't have kids there that are outside of Walnut Creek. I have a
couple kids from Concord, a couple kids from Lafayette. We go to the meet, we eat
at the snack shack, and then we go back to our houses, and we're sleeping
there. We're not going to hotels. We're not going out shopping that night. Maybe
I'm getting a pizza at Rocco's so that I can go home because I'm tired. We've all
been in the sun all day. So that's not generating, that's generating zero money
for the city of Walnut Creek. What a shame for Measure O that's expecting. I
think they were under the exception that that would generate income for their
city. All those people that were so concerned about the city and I am too.
That's that's where my conference is. That's where my city meet is for my team.
That's not generating any money. So it doesn't make any sense when we're
talking about this. You have to win a bid for a meet and you cannot win any bid
for a meet under that. Anything else? Yeah, I guess those are my two greatest
concerns. I just want to talk about one experience I had. We went to
Chicago this past year at a pool that was an indoor facility. I went with just
my son who was an elite level swimmer. At that meet there was probably 13, 1500
swimmers. I was there for five days. I had a hotel, my son had a hotel, Mike had a
hotel room, other swimmers, the hotels we couldn't even find one in the city.
We had to go 25 minutes out of the city to find a hotel room because parents were there.
We were all there.
We were done at noon except for one day when my son made finals, and we went into the city
every night.
We ate dinner.
I went shopping.
It was before Christmas time.
I went to these cute little boutiques.
We went to these cute little restaurants.
That is what the city of Walnut Creek is.
People would come here and I went home.
It was Chicago, and I said, Danny, to my husband, we have to go back to Chicago.
everyone has told me how great it is, but we have to go back. It is the cutest city.
I know for certain that that's what the city of Walnut Creek would be with water polo,
would be with synchro, would be with competitions. This isn't just any old city. This is an amazing
city that people would come back to, that people is desirable to go to. A deep pool, Dennis said,
is primarily just for competition, but I disagree with that. I think it's for programming,
And I think that that's why we're all here.
I think we're fighting for programming.
Someone is going to get pinched out.
We are already pinched out.
We're already at capacity.
This would cut our programming.
This would cut AquaNuts programming.
We also talked about the lesson program a little bit.
I had evaluations for my little rec team.
I had 53 kids show up on Friday.
I spent the last two days calling parents,
telling them that I had no room for them.
And on that form that I had, it asked
where they did previous lessons.
And the city of Walnut Creek was a huge feeder of who's
coming to me for lessons, of who's
going to Rasmussen for lessons, who are both at capacity,
of who's going to American Swim Academy.
Doing lessons in a 50-meter pool doesn't work,
because it's too cold.
Kids are not learning, in my opinion.
And Karen is running a great lesson program.
I'm helping with the sea serpents on Sunday.
I had kids get out at 15, 20 minutes
because they were sitting on the wall shivering, kids
with disabilities that were sitting
on the wall and shivering.
If you want to run a successful lesson program,
you put it in a smaller pool.
That's a little bit warmer.
It's almost a disservice for families that are thinking.
And they are.
It's a little bit more affordable.
But eventually, they go welfare because they
want their kids for the safety and the benefit of their kids
to learn how to swim.
So that is also a huge concern for me.
Where do I send these kids?
I don't know right now, but as far as I'm concerned,
I'm not gonna send them to a 15 meter pool to do lessons,
so I would love to see a bulkhead
so that it could accommodate everyone.
I would love to see a smaller lesson program
that can't be kept a little warmer.
If you put in someone who really knew programming
and really knew how to run a lesson program,
I can guarantee that that lesson program can make millions.
That's how pools generate money.
I'm making, you know, small little swim schools
making about what the city is making in lesson programs right now, and that's just seasonal.
Another thing that Dennis mentioned is these pool facilities and the surface water doesn't retain
water. You said that's the greatest way that we lose heat. That's a huge concern for me,
that here we have this small pool with all this surface area water. How are we going to keep that
warm? How is that going to work? That's going to be shut down during the winter. I've never seen,
I've been to so many pools I've never seen those be able to stay open in the
winter so it's also another huge concern if we consider that as our spillover I
don't know how we're gonna spill over into that during the winter so that's
that's the conclusion of everything my concerns. One question council members
let me I must I think I misheard you okay you said you would there would be a
loss of 40 swimmers? Yes. Which is roughly 25 percent of your organization.
About 20 to 25 percent. And you said that would be a revenue loss of $144,000 per
year? For our team, yeah, just in dues. Just in dues, yeah. So if you figure that's
probably about $3,000 a kid. So about $3,000 to $3,600 a swimmer? Yeah,
about. Our dues are different depending on ages but that's what it about comes
down to. And thank you. Councilmember Francois? Just elaborating on that then
can you explain what it is about the design that causes your team to lose the
40 players? Sure yeah. So we've actually been giving programming by the city of
Walnut Creek and it shows that we have less pool space. We have narrower pools
that we've been given. So you know when we came back and we were concerned about
pool space, what they did was they took the same exact pool and they just made
those lanes a little bit narrower. Anyone who is a competitive swimmer or who is a
coach knows that you can't safely put as many kids in a narrower lane. It just
doesn't work. Even my older kids doing butterfly, they can't do laps going
in opposite directions because they're gonna hit against each other. And so
narrower pools for us. It makes it seem like it's the same, but it really isn't.
Right now we're also at capacity on Saturdays, as well as during our peak
hours. We have a wait list, right? So we are at capacity. How are you gonna fit
aqua nuts into that at the same time that you're gonna fit us in? Okay so it's
the narrower lanes and then I thought I saw a conceptual schedule that there was
potential that Aquabears would lose a couple of lanes during the summer, I think it was.
I know it's a conceptual school.
I believe we lose every day, because Aquanets will then be coming into our pool.
It's not our pool.
Everyone's pool, but if you envision that we are running our program from four to seven
every day using all those lanes at that 50 meter pool every once in a while, I believe
Karen runs, you have one or two lanes for the lessons, we're at capacity in that pool and then
that's when aqua nuts, you can't, you know, Governor Newsom has said that we need to start
school later for the health of kids. And I think the mayor is going to tell us to keep moving on.
Okay, I'm sorry. But just one final question on the needs. Yeah. I'm aware that the aqua nuts have
their show. The masters have a yearly meet it seems like. Do the Aqua Bears
currently have any meats? We used to host before the pool was deemed unsafe we
used to host Far Westerns which now Cowell hosts that generates about $60,000
in revenue that also brings in about 1,500 people into their city. So we would
love to host meats. We have probably the strongest manpower to host meats. We
would be able to host meets if we had the facility to host meets but because
of the depth of it we unfortunately lost that and lost huge revenue when they
changed those roles. No, we didn't ask that she answered the questions. Thank
you. Ryan Canari and Robert Arroyo, Steve Starr, and Stephanie Scott.
I can't hear what you're saying okay I put in as a representative for Pacific
swimming in the speakers thing okay all right who are you Leo Lynn I'll wait for
these speakers but I do want an opportunity to represent that's your
want yeah okay all right thank you Ryan Canine I live in Pleasant Hill I work at
USA Water Pool, but that's not what I'm here for today. I'm here. It was good to
follow up. She talked about the pool in Chicago. That pool is incredible. Just to
give you the economics of that, when we bring an event to that city, to that pool,
they pay the pool rent for us. They pay the pool rent in other facilities
because it is so lucrative for us to bring all of our programming to their
city to fill up their hotels, fill up their restaurants, and fill up their pools.
The one thing you probably heard all evening is dig deep water, seven foot pool, 50 meters.
If you want to stretch that out, go ahead.
But if you dig a seven foot deep pool and you have a 50 meter pool, we can come in and
rent.
I know nobody wants us in that pool with all the swimming and everything else that's in
there.
But the one thing we can do is we can rent that thing at any time.
We can run multiple water pool meets.
we run Junior Olympics, which is just about 13,000 athletes.
The gentleman behind me is going to talk about his club,
his involvement with the sport.
But we ran about 42 pools.
I would be in line, and I'd like to put my name down right now,
to rent eight days at the end of July
whenever it's ready to be able to get in there.
The one thing I do want the council to look at,
is the design of hopefully a 10-lane all shallow pool
and having it connected to the splash pad.
The redundancy of the splash pad heating that water,
I think Mr. Safian said it himself
that it's a 24-hour process.
So if that splash pad, the intended use is four hours a day,
three to five months a year,
and it's connected to a 10-lane lap pool,
you're even heating a significant amount of water
throughout the year that you don't actually have to do.
I would actually section that thing off
because it's rentable for parties.
It's not connected to the lap pool.
And if you did all those things,
I think you're 100% of all your user groups
would be represented.
Hi, my name is Robert Arroyo.
I help run the Diablo Alliance Water Polo Club
that rents multiple pools in the Walnut Creek area,
including the Corona Light Athletic Complex,
Los Lomas High School, and Northgate High School.
so we have a large base that is from Walnut Creek.
And one of the items that I just wanted
to bring to your attention is that we do run
a major water polo tournament in the area
and it's called the Frozen Cup.
It's an annual event that's been going on
for multiple years now.
This past year, and keep in mind
this is centered in Walnut Creek,
this past year we had participants teams
from over nine different states.
We had over 3,000 athletes
that were at the event, and because we could not find
pool space in the Walnut Creek
or Walnut Creek general area, we used a Loney College,
and we used Newark High School,
which are obviously nowhere near Walnut Creek
or where our base is from as well.
And so half of our tournament was really split
between this area and that area,
which obviously causes a lot of revenue loss for the city,
either from hotel rentals
or from restaurants or even division between teams
in the sense of just being able to manage
multiple age groups, families being split
and kind of things of that nature as well.
And one of the other important aspects
of just water polo tournaments in general
to kind of put on your radar is that
we're constantly traveling to Southern California
as a water polo group.
And I would say that we're probably traveling
One, like probably once every month,
month and a half with our groups in Southern California,
because there's just more opportunities down there
for being able to go to these larger tournaments
where we can play multiple different teams.
And when you look at, you know,
if we have this sort of a facility
that's open with deep water
to be able to run multiple courses,
we'll be able to have the ability to offer
that sort of tournament offering on a more often,
where we can one, keep our families in the area
that aren't spending a lot of money out of the area
but then are also bringing in people
that'll bring money and generate a lot of revenue
for the city of Walnut Creek.
I just wanna thank you guys so much for your time
and if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer.
So tell me, you described the number of athletes
but not the number of teams and venues
that you actually run in the frozen cup,
is that two days event?
It was over two weekends in the age groups
went from 12 and under.
I asked you, how many teams?
About 190 teams.
So how many athletes on a team?
On a team, there's roughly somewhere
between 12 and 18 athletes.
And 190 teams.
So how many venues does it take to do that over two weekends?
Is one team might be on the first weekend
and another team might be on the second weekend?
Correct.
OK.
And so we rented, well, so for example,
at Northgate High School, we had three courses
for younger age group on one of the weekends,
and then on the other weekend,
we had two courses that were on that.
On that, at that course, we rented the soda center.
How many teams are flighted,
if you use the same term that they would in soccer,
but how many teams in a flight on a weekend?
How many teams in a flight?
somewhere between nine and 24.
So at Northgate High School, you had three courses?
Yes, for a younger age group.
So with 12 and under age group, we had a total of,
let's see, so we had the 12 and under girls
and the 12 and under boys,
which was roughly about 30 odd teams.
I wanna say. 30 odd teams.
maybe an average of 15.
Right.
Size team, okay, thank you.
Yes.
Thank you, I've been requested a break of five minutes,
so everybody relax for five minutes
and don't go too far, we still have more people to come.
I got it, by the time we get it going.
Thank you everybody for getting back to your seat so timely.
She's talking about me.
No, actually I'm missing another one too.
Mr. I'm going to go to Steve Stahl, Steve, how did I announce you before or did you just get a
moment? I, you know, I have moments frequently at 1040 like I'm sure you do as well. Come on,
okay, so thank you. Steve Stahl, so I am a Walnut Creek resident, over 30 years now I've lived in
in the city, and it's because of Heather Farms
and the Masters team that we bought our house,
my wife and I, in 1996, where we raised our kids.
I can't imagine going anywhere else.
I've trained 35 years at Heather Farms,
30 of those I've had the honor of coaching,
the Walnut Creek Masters, the last two.
I am currently one of the two co-head coaches.
We have 500 members, which would accommodate,
oh gosh, probably close to 60,000 swims a year,
I would say our group, and that's 60.
And I'm guessing the Aquabears and the Aquanauts,
we're close to 100 if we're all going to compare numbers.
I was going to have all our members stand,
but I think the 530 workout tomorrow morning,
what you want, oh, there we go.
Fabulous, thank you.
On behalf of those standing,
we'd like to thank all of you to getting us to this point.
It's been a long time getting here.
And our point is to be grateful.
Try not to act petulant.
Try not to have us look as crazy swim people,
but trying to explain our position, which
I know you've heard to no end at this evening.
The bottom line really is that the current proposal
that we've seen does not meet our current needs as a team.
I'll speak specifically to the master's team.
We will be losing our primary fundraiser,
which is this 25 meter championship meet,
which we've held for over 20 years in October.
Without a bulkhead, that's not going to happen.
We raise, it's about a $20,000
that Mike had mentioned earlier, net profit to us.
Specific to our organization, again,
given the current design proposal,
our largest, well, I already told you about that.
Since I'm the head, may I go a little longer?
Since I'm the head of Walnut Creek Masters,
I won't take 10 minutes.
No, no, what I'm going to offer you
is you could have the whole 10 minutes
if everybody else agrees they're going to be here.
Oh, good plan.
Yeah.
Fabulous, thank you.
And I don't have much more, honestly.
Okay, well, he's taking 10, sorry.
And I promised Mr. Lynn, yeah,
he said he was going to be short.
I'll be short.
Yeah, okay.
Really, summarizing the program impact chart,
which hopefully you've read submitted
by Andrea Kelly-Smithhurst from the Walnut Creek Aquatic
Foundation.
We will lose lane space.
We will lose summer long course training.
We will lose safe lane width for our adult swimmers.
And not surprisingly, we will lose members.
Conservatively, it's probably about a $25,000 to $30,000
loss, I would guess, in team revenues,
given this current design.
So, given this negative economic impact,
I cannot in all good conscience suggest to our board,
this is the Walnut Creek Master Board,
that we contribute and go along
with the $3 million fund raise.
We would love to have the community engagement
that goes with that money.
If the aquatic foundation proposals are accepted,
specifically the deep water allowing us the events
and at the very least where we currently are,
We would I would happily change that and we would fundraise to no end to try and get a really great facility that we're all trying to get
to
And last but not least councilwoman Silva Rosemary is welcome to join us at any point if she wants to come and swim with us
Okay, well she's more than welcome as are you okay, thank you, okay
What is your name miss?
All right, Stephanie, why don't you come forward.
And then it will be Leo Lynn.
Good evening.
Good evening.
Thank you.
I'm a Walnut Creek resident.
Can you hear me?
Yeah.
One of the reasons I moved here was
to be on the master's swim team.
I had never been on a big team.
My hometown of Millageville, Georgia,
had a city pool, which they closed in 1959
because they didn't want to integrate it.
Swimming, I joined in 1997 at the age of 50.
I didn't know competitive swimming or all the strokes.
I have swum consistently.
Since then, it is one of the joys of my life.
I joined when Kerry was the coach.
I have since won numerous regional championships,
four national championships.
I do open water, I do pool.
It was shocking to me, coming from a non-swim community,
to see world famous Walnut Creek swimming not really
appreciated by the city.
Talk of removing the 50-meter pool.
I saw Kerry get fired.
Life moves on.
50-meter pool is back.
Kerry's retired.
We have great coaches.
I wanna speak to one design totally for what Mike is doing.
I wanna speak to one design aspect
from an active swimmer point of view.
Lane line width is very important.
We need the eight foot, right?
Eight foot.
When we work out occasionally at Larky,
it is so nice to get back to Clark with all its problems
because of that foot makes a lot of difference.
You've got three lanes of traffic in a workout lane.
You've got the swimmer going off.
You've got the swimmer coming back.
We swim counterclockwares.
Where are all the four to six other ones,
or the 10 in the long course?
If it's running right, they're lined up down the middle.
So you've got three lanes of traffic.
You've also got swimmers coming this way.
It's more easy to injure your 76-year-old
or 30-year-old hands.
please don't cut us short on the lane size.
Thank you.
Thank you.
All right, Mr. Lin.
And then it'll be Jeff Budke.
And Melissa Leung and Bogdan Popis.
Yeah, okay.
Mr. Lin, please start.
Okay, my name is Leo Lin
and I've been a Warner Creek resident for 40 plus year.
I represent the organization called Pacific Swimming.
I'm talking to a bear.
It doesn't recognize as an organization.
Pacific Swimming is one of the 59 LSCs
that make up USA Swimming.
Pacific Swimming is in the Northern California region,
and we support 13,000 competitive swimmers.
within the Contra Costa and Alameda County border,
we have 5,000 plus competitive swimmers.
Okay, now my qualification,
other than being a Water Creek resident,
I've been a swim official for 20 plus years.
I've been on the Pacific Swimming Board for the last 10,
running from all different jobs from operations,
scheduling, meet all organization,
and I last retired as the acting general chair
of Pacific Swimming.
So I represent a very good sized organization.
So I like to, as I told Luella, I'm sorry, first name basis,
we're very casual.
And I like to talk about competitive swimming,
because competitive swimming and lap swimming
has been lumped into one, and it's not.
But before I even get into that, a couple of things
I wanted to point out.
The long course season for USA swimming
runs from February to March, OK?
It's run from after May to September,
because our high school season doesn't end until May.
And there is no reason for clubs to convert to long course.
All the swimmers that are swimming high schools
are swimming short course.
So that's one point.
The other point that I like to point out
is when we build a pool, we talked about depth already.
I'm not gonna cover that.
Okay, let's cover length.
The length has to be built
so that it can accommodate competitive swimming.
Let's take a look at what that means.
Laki pool has eight lanes,
but only seven are certifiable
because one lane is too short.
When we swim these meets, they are measured not just
from pool to pool.
We have touch pads in there.
You measure from touch pad to touch pad.
So you have to build to excess.
I'm glad that Miwok Center is built to excess,
because if you do long course pool,
you've got pads in both ends.
You have to be longer than 50 meters.
When they measured, they allowed you a minimum,
which is 50 meter.
You can go over, but you cannot go under.
There's no plus or minus in that engineering.
The reason is you can set the time at least 50 meter,
but if you swim 49.9, don't count.
Okay, so that's the technical specs.
Okay, now that's all I have to say about the technical part.
Let's talk about competitive swimming.
Okay, I've been a meat official, as I said, from 25 years.
I've officiated recreational swimming in Warner Creek.
City meat, I'm in there.
And it's always hot in city meats.
We know that, okay?
Next level up on the progression of swimming,
people go to high school.
High school swimming.
I'm still a current meat referee for NCS,
the premier swimming league conference here.
I do a lot of the high school league championship.
So I understand what is needed in there.
And then NCAA, we talk about NCAA, I do Cal meets.
All of the Cal home meets I am the meet referee for.
What are those things in common?
They're all 25 yard pools.
All the USA competition are 25 yards.
The 50 meters are all international.
And if we want to compete in the national scale,
it is the 50 meters.
So we have people who graduated from rec swimming all the way
through to Olympian from this area, one that's
very famous, Natalie Kalkin, all the way
to national, international.
But this is the stepping stone that we provide the raw material to go to our Olympic teams.
Just like the aquanauts, people go from us up.
And I've seen swimmers that I officiated from the high school from the rec team to high
school to NCWA to Olympic trial.
So you see the progression.
And one of the things that everybody
said about competitive swimmers, they
are the best time management kids in school.
Because as you heard, they spent three hours or 6,000 a day.
They have to program in the time to go and do their homework.
So swimmers come to college application
has a very high benefit.
you don't have to pay to be on the crew team, okay?
So the other operation, you mentioned two six-link cars,
that's gonna be left out of the room.
A six-link course is a pool that is mostly around here
on recreational teams.
Not the, recreation sounds like a bad name, but it's not.
It's the grassroots for people that go from the city,
the multi-family units to the pool.
Now, where I live in Warner Creek,
around me within walking distance,
there's three recreational club with six lane pools.
Okay, for when I set up the meet schedule
for teams to bid for to run the Pacific meets,
minimum requirement is eight lane.
There's no six lane, six lane doesn't work.
It's a waste of time.
We don't have the same amount of personnel
to officiate and support a six lane meet
is the same as a eight lane as the same as a 10.
10 lane, why the city meet runs 10 lanes?
10 lane is the maximum you can run a company.
There's no timing equipment make to time
for more than 10 lanes.
Eight lanes is the preferred.
This is because for officiating,
your focus on 10 lanes is a lot more than eight
and that two extra lane is just get beyond your sight.
So eight lane is a preview.
So when we set up meets to be bit in Pacific swimming,
two eight lane, 16 lane pools.
How do you get that?
Take a 50 meter, slice it in half.
Okay, so putting a bowcat in between two six lane
doesn't make any sense.
Because six-lane, basically, you double the number of people
you have to officiate and support that meet.
Workers, runners, everything.
And you don't get that much pushback.
No, that much swimmers do.
I used to run a meet in Hillard Farm
before the days of being not allowed
to swim because of the depth.
I ran eight and seven lanes, two course at the same time.
And what's the number of swimmers I push through a day?
800 plus swimmers in that course within a four-hour time limit.
Because for us, swimmers under the age of 12
has to finish a meet in four hours.
City meat, if you run two courses in city meat,
you can be done in at least you cut the meat down
by about at least 30%.
Two or eight-lane course will be attending.
Well, simple.
And the simple thing also is you got two courses going.
If one course goes down, you continue.
So swim.
Things always happen in swim meet.
One course going down, with the other course going,
you have a lot more flexibility.
So a two-course design actually can throughput a lot more
swimmer at a lot shorter time.
Now, the pool rent is still the same.
You rent the pool for one day.
But the number of customers, swimmers,
that you can accommodate, as I said,
I pushed through 800 plus swimmers in Heather Farm before.
Now in Heather Farm, city meat can run 10 lanes.
Hopefully we got all the blocks that can run it.
Because the blocks, it used to be,
remember I said I run seven and eight.
That's 15.
Now we can barely run 10.
We cannot replace the blocks
because the vendors will not sell us the blocks
because our water is too shallow.
So you're limited
and you know every time we go into those meets
during the warmup, kids hit the head.
And you heard that.
Safety, we have to be safe.
It's just a few dollars more we make all kinds of decisions
for being safe.
So that's my thing.
Go with the deep water and think about competition.
And just to find out that the amount of money bringing
is 10 to the $20,000, $30,000 a meet.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Any questions?
Yeah, one.
OK.
So what you were talking about was basically
by increasing the number of lanes,
you can effectively run two swims at the same time.
One swim with two courses.
With two courses.
OK.
So it shortens the length of the meat.
Correct.
We have a limit for us.
We have a limit of four hours.
OK, thank you.
And city meat will be shorter.
I can speak to that.
I'm Jeff Budke.
I am a Lafayette resident born and raised in Walnut Creek.
I'm a board member on Walnut Creek Swim Club recreational swim team.
I am the director of the Walnut Creek All-City Meet.
So I've heard a lot of questions
about all city meet, I can answer all of those.
I hope.
Is it gonna be cooler?
Than it was before?
I'll tell you what.
Oh, temperature wise, I can't guarantee it.
But Clark as it is right now is a great operation
for our meet and for a large format meet.
I see considerations with the new pool
that the layout of the design,
while there's more square footage,
the square footage is not as useful of deck space.
What you can't tell in the floor plan
the plan view there is that there's a step down to the lower pool that's five
feet about making that half of the pool half of the pool deck not capable for
for spectating watching races that's consideration but what I want to get
into was just the benefit that the meat brings for our team and this is real
data 45 to 50 thousand dollars is what we make on all city meat each year that
that we have 175 swimmers on our team,
we run it through all volunteer basis
with our parents and families.
And so that makes a huge impact on what we can afford to do,
how we can keep our fees low
and make it open to the community.
And it's not a private club
like many of the rec swim teams that are,
it's open to anybody who can join.
So I wanted to highlight that.
Also, yes, a larger pool, running two 10-lane pools
would be great for all City Meat.
Right now, we run one 10-lane course.
It functions as needed for our needs,
but having room for the spectators, I think,
is a big issue, a big important issue,
and reorganizing the pool deck would accommodate that.
I'll let you, if you have any questions about City Meat,
I can answer them now, or that's all I have, thank you.
that? City meet, spectators, so can you explain a little bit more why you don't
think the proposal works and... Sure. Yeah. Okay, so we run 17 to 1,800 swimmers at
all city meet over two days. Those people are there both days. Of that we expect
around 5,000 spectators as well. So the pool deck is covered with swimmers. I've
had two rec swimmers. So I've been to at least 10 city meets. And I just to, you
know, I you go for like two minutes, watch your kids swim, and go back to the
tent, right? Right. It's so maybe max now there's capacity for, I don't know, 80
spectators or something on the actual bleacher stands, right? And then you got
the concrete steps. Right, and the concrete steps at Clark is where all the
parents stand and watch the race is tiered and you can see the entire pool
from there. We don't have that option in the new layout where the pool steps down. If it
were the other way around, it'd be wonderful because you could stand on the upper level
and look down. So it's kind of useless for watching races where it confined to the tight
spaces around. Boy, I'm just, there's so much going on in my head about this. To address
your points, the landscape area as designed, it looks like it's more cut up. There's mounds
and it's less consolidated.
Right now, at Clark, there's one continuous lawn
where all the teams stay and set up their tents
and stay for the weekend.
So, I think that would be a little bit harder to run.
I do think, I mean, the pool does check the boxes
for what we need to accommodate,
but it does it in a much less efficient way,
and I think it will be a less beneficial meet.
We try to, our meet is a community event,
And we try to involve the community in different ways
and bring in local vendors and make it a festival.
And so having a space that accommodates that's our goal.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you.
Okay, appreciate it.
Hi, I'm Melissa Leung.
I own investment property in Walnut Creek,
so I have a vested interest in having the city do well.
I'm actually a resident of Lafayette,
but my daughter swims with the Walnut Creek Aquanauts.
The running joke is, I live in Walnut Creek
and I sleep in Lafayette.
That causes me to come here all the time.
I do all my shopping, gas, groceries, dental.
Anything that I can get done in Walnut Creek,
I will do, because she's here five to six days a week
for three to four hours at a time.
So it's just a lot more efficient for me
to do whatever I need to do here.
So I do believe I contribute to Walnut Creek.
My friends and family, most of them,
they live outside of Walnut Creek.
They'll drive anywhere from San Francisco
to watch my daughter swim in the fall show.
Various fundraisers for Wanna Creek.
They make an entire event.
They caravan out here, 10 to 20 people in cars.
They don't just come out just to see her when she's here.
They enjoy Wanna Creek downtown.
There's upscale shopping, really great restaurants.
They tell me the parking spaces are bigger.
So they're also contributing when they come out here.
From a kind of non-monetary perspective,
my daughter, she lives for Synchro.
She feels so much pride.
She won three Olympic, Junior Olympic gold medals
last summer.
Parents came up to me because they
saw that I was wearing my WCA gear from different states
and was like, oh my gosh, you guys
are the Wanna Creek Aquanauts.
How do you get so much swim time?
And I tell them that the city of Wanna Creek supports us
and supports our young ladies.
So I just want to let you know that it means a lot.
You're not just building a swim club or a swim team
or artistic swimmers.
You're building young women and their character.
Thank you.
is team council. Thank you. May we have your name please? My name is Bogdan Popescu. Oh thank you.
Yes, so thank you so much for the opportunity to speak. I am the owner of a small business located
in the city of Hornet Creek and I wholeheartedly support the WCIF proposal. My 10-year-old daughter
is a member of the WC Aquanauts and because of this I had the privilege to know this club,
It's coaches and athletes with their exceptional achievements,
work ethic, and passion that are a source of inspiration
not only for our families but for the community as a whole.
Artistic swimming is a sport that does not have the money
that other sports like professional baseball,
football, or basketball have.
It doesn't mean that swimmers and their coaches
have to work less.
In fact, I think they are working harder.
Artistics women is considered among the hardest Olympic sports,
if not the hardest.
It's a hard work spanning hundreds and thousands
of hours of training, work which is fueled purely by passion.
But this passion, no matter how big it is,
it is not enough if they don't have the appropriate pools
or they can work these endless hours.
It is on us on the community to help,
because only the financial powerful community
can provide absolute necessary support for an organization that so proudly represents
this community at the national and international levels.
At the previous PROS commission that I attended meeting in February, the Aquanaut head coach
stated that they are trying to build an aquatic empire.
And I know that she's not playing with words.
So I learned at this PROS meeting and over the last few months that the WCAF proposal
It's not a nice to have, but an absolute must-have
for W.C. Aquanauts with a major generational impact.
We are right now at a crucial crossroad,
and I'm hoping that your decision
will be remembered not at something
that cut the wings of a high-flying, unique club
with a glorious 50 years' history,
but one that will fuel another 50 years of exceptionalism.
I'm proud for our community, thank you.
Well timed, good.
Yes, please.
Good evening, mayor and city council.
My name is Lei.
My daughter, Karen, has been with WCA for eight years.
We used to live in Pleasanton.
And now, Warner Creek Downtown is my favorite place
to go shopping and also dining.
When my daughter joined WCA, she was a little cute girl,
second grade in the elementary school.
Now she is a junior student in high school.
So when I'm looking back the last eight years,
we were so blessed and grateful that she joined WCA.
She's now a very self-disciplined,
hardworking, and determined young lady.
WCA helped shape her personality.
She's being selected into the USA national team
for three times,
competing in the international competition representing USA.
So when we were traveling,
we are always very proud to say we came from WCA.
To me, WCA, Warner Creek Aquanauts, is like a legend.
Warner Creek builds the home, the nest, for the aquanauts.
And aquanauts bring the reputation to Warner Creek.
And so by the time this project completes,
my daughter will be in college already.
But I'm sure there are many girls, young girls,
little girls out there.
They have the same dream as my little girl.
They have the same passion to this beautiful sport.
So I just hope this legend could continue.
And I also wanted to acknowledge the other parent they set.
My daughter is a flyer, so they throw her into the air.
And as a flyer, it's very dangerous
if you have a swimmer swimming around her.
It's not only dangerous for the flyer.
It's also very dangerous for the swimmer as well.
So I just wanted to bring, I support WCAF proposal.
I just wanted to share my thoughts with you
from a different perspective for your consideration
for the next 10 years, 20 years, or 50 years.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Hi, good evening, Mayor Haski and City Council members.
My name is Doris Kawakami,
a Walnut Creek resident for 16 years
and a proud parent of an aquana.
I just want to make a couple of points,
not, it's not gonna be long.
The city staff mentioned that if we don't move forward,
as soon as possible, it will be costly.
As I understand it, we are in the pre-design phase.
We are doing exactly what we are supposed to be doing,
providing our input.
This should be part of the process
and included in the budget.
Let's not rush this process, please.
Also, another point about the meets that are hosted,
we could generate money with the city
by selling merchandise.
It's amazing how much people spend on T-shirts
sweatshirts. Please don't think that the swim teams only want to generate
revenue for themselves. Let's be creative and work together. And that's it. Thank
you. Thank you. I'm afraid to ask this question, is there anybody else who wants
to come and speak that didn't get a chance? Okay, I'm closing the public
comment and I have to bang and bringing it back to the Council. So we have a bunch of
choices. Do we have some more questions for staff? Oh, I'm sure we do. Okay.
Mayor, if I may, defer to your judgment on this. At some point I would like to
speak to the MOU with the Aquatics Foundation in the city and at some point
points speak to economic impact, so I'd defer to whenever you think that's appropriate to
do.
I always want to talk about money, so would you please, would you please.
Would you like me to cover both of those topics now?
Absolutely, yeah.
So I want to talk for a few moments about the agreement with the Aquatics Foundation
and that I was very actively engaged in negotiating
with Mike and with Andrea in particular and others.
It was brought to your council for adoption two years ago.
It was April 5th, 2022 when that was brought forward
and Mike and I are the signatories to the agreement.
You know, it was that time and well prior to that
that it was discussed and agreed
that we'd be going from three pools,
actually from four pools to three pools
because we seem to leave out larky.
There are four pools in Walnut Creek right now that are used,
and we would be going from four to three,
but obviously at Heather Farm from three to two.
That was recognized a while back.
That was agreed to as part of the MOU.
And I point that out because some of what we're hearing tonight
and some of what we're wrestling with collectively
are some of the challenges associated
with going from three pools to two pools
and how to make that work.
But that was known back when the agreement
was signed two years ago.
I also want to point out that the agreement, as it, there's a lot of aspects to the agreement,
but as it relates to the design, it was very clear in the MOU that there would be a recreation
pool, and that there would be a 50 meter pool that meets FINA standards.
The design that's proposed before you tonight for staff does both.
I also want to point out what the agreement does not include.
The agreement does not have any mention of an all-deep pool, nor does it have any mention
a 52-meter pool with a bulkhead.
And these are new requests, and I mention that because we discussed this MOU at length
two years ago, and those were not inserted to the MOU.
And I can assure you those were long discussions, they were tense at times, but there was not
a discussion of an LD pool or a 52-meter with a bulkhead, and those are not in here.
So those are new requests that frankly could have surfaced two years ago as part of the
MOU.
I don't want to point that out.
Couple other things, shifting to economic impact here.
There's, I think, there's a lot of information
floating about, and I think it's important
to run through some math here.
And I think it's important to differentiate
between economic impact and revenues
that are generated through taxes that come back to the city.
And what we've heard is that a lot of these additional meets
that could be held, whether it's water polo,
whether, whomever it is, will generate enough money
that it would pay for the additional
four to six million dollars of costs.
So I wanna speak to what that actually looks like.
So bear with me for a few moments.
There's a few numbers here to run through,
but the sales tax in Walnut Creek is 9.25%.
The city of Walnut Creek receives 1.5% of that.
The rest goes primarily to the state
and it goes to a few other governmental agencies,
more regionally.
On hotels, the city receives 8.5%
of whatever the room rate is.
So those are the numbers.
So let's talk about the implications for that.
So if these enhancements, it's four to six million,
let's call it five million in the middle
just for a round figure, so it's easier.
So some basic math to give you a sense
of how much economic activity would need to occur
to pay back that $5 million.
So at 1.5% of a sale, there would
have to be $333 million of sales in order
to generate $5 million of sales tax,
just to put that into perspective.
So let's talk about meals.
People often go out to eat, that sort of thing.
So let's say, on average, it's $100
that people spend when they go out to eat.
it's probably the cost somewhere between a lunch
and somewhere between a dinner.
To generate $5 million through sales tax,
through $100 meals, it means that there would be
3.25 million meals that would need to be eaten
in order to pursue that,
in order to generate that $5 million.
So that is the amount of volume that would be needed.
So if there are-
And that would have to be directly related
to this swimming activity?
Exactly.
So you can imagine how many meals that is,
how many people that would take,
and how many years that would take
to generate three and a quarter million meals to be consumed.
On the hotel side, as I mentioned,
8.5% is the amount that the city receives back.
So if we were to assume, for argument's sake,
that the average room cost,
which is actually the average daily rate,
it's about $200 in Walnut Creek.
it varies at different times, but that's the average daily rate.
So there are, for reference, there are 763 hotel rooms in the city of Walnut Creek between
the various hotels.
If we were to assume that to recoup the $5 million with an average daily rate of $200,
let's say we assume there's 5,000 room stays per year associated with aquatics.
It could be more, it could be 10,000, whatever the case may be.
Let's assume 5,000, that's what I did the math on.
It would take 59 years in order to recoup the $5 million.
So I just highlight that because there's been a lot of discussion about the economic impact.
There's no doubt there would be some economic impact, but not nearly to the extent to pay
for this differential between the $4 to $6 million.
And obviously, there are other economic benefits to other businesses in the region.
the spend that occurs, and I think there's been a lot of confusion between
the spend that would occur in a city that might benefit the region generally
as folks might spend some money in Concord, they might spend money in
Pleasant Hill, they might spend it in Walnut Creek, but what trickles back
directly would have to be spent in Walnut Creek, and then that's the amount
of the sales tax or the hotel tax that would be recaptured and come
back to the city to offset these costs? There are more hotel rooms in our
Tourist and Visitors Bureau but a couple. Two are not in the city limits. Two are not. It's the
Renaissance and the Embassy Suites. That's correct. They have Walnut Creek
addresses but they're in unincorporated Walnut Creek so we're not, we don't
get the TOT from those that goes to the county. Contra Costa County is correct. We have, so I
So I have another question, so there's been a lot of comments to us about Measure O. There
were a lot of things, it was a bundle of things that we needed to accomplish because we had
a number of needs.
We didn't just have the need to improve infrastructure at the pools.
What did the community tell us before we put it on the ballot?
How did we know, you know, we had more needs than those.
What did we know of the community's attitude?
You know, we pulled on a number of things, including the, you know, building a new and
modern aquatic center was one of the things.
We pulled on public safety.
We pulled on homelessness.
We pulled on all types of things.
So here are a few data points.
This was a statistically valid survey that occurred in January of 2022 that there was
76% support for public safety generally.
There was 75% specific for crime prevention, so a little more narrower in terms of public
safety.
So those were the two that resonated the most.
The next highest was homelessness at 58% support, that there was interest.
Beyond that, it was 56% for water conservation and sustainability.
And then there were a number of others.
The support per this poll in the community for building a new and modern aquatic center
was 17% approval rating is what that came through. 70 or 17. 17. Was there, what
was the level of support for the community center? That was bundled as
part of it. So that was that was aquatics and community center right but people
were thinking they were voting on the pool. Right. Waiting to see if anybody has
any further questions. I have some technical questions. That's fine.
And it is 1130 at night and we do need to keep in mind that we are working at a high enough level so that we're not
Diving down. Well, we don't want to do this again
I've got a few questions. Why don't why don't we go with Kevin's questions?
And I think a lot have been answered during this and I
So Kevin will probably need to come down at some point just be prepared
We heard about a separate splash area from the wreck pool and a couple of reasons for that one thing
I didn't hear that I heard from the community previously
was what happens if there are dirty diapers because splash area accommodates and caters to
Poddlers that are still in diapers. Is that a problem?
Do we foresee a problem if it is connected to the wreck pool if there is an accident?
Sorry, Kevin. That's great
Why not?
So those happen today to the extent
that they have occurred at the Larky splash pad.
It's maybe happened zero in the past year.
The only fecal accidental fecal release, sorry for the term,
in the past year was at our summer camp at Larky.
We don't recall any at Clark.
So it happens.
And when it happens, we deal with it per code.
But I'm not concerned any more than I otherwise
would be about this facility compared to Larky
or compared to Clark today.
Does the pool have to be closed if that happens?
It does, yes.
So the entire rec pool would be closed?
Yeah.
And when we look at Larky, and we heard this very early,
five hours ago probably,
how do we look at Larky when we compared with,
when we're talking about the shallower lanes
versus the deeper lanes that are at Larky?
I mean, the usage that we're seeing there,
I think it was Karen that actually talked about
how they were, we have many more swimmers
that are in the rec pool versus.
Right, and Karen will speak to this.
We have more activity in the shallow water at Larky
than we do in the deep water and that just makes sense.
You know, you shouldn't be, if you're a kid
or a family with little kids in deep water
that's above your head, but Karen can talk about that.
I think that was a good overall view.
We have about 19 feet, which is about two lanes,
of shallow water at Larky that runs 25 meters.
In the summertime, for every, I'll say for every 10 people
that are in that shallow water space,
we see maybe one person in our deep water space.
So in the summertime, those families, those kids,
those participants are packed in, like sardines,
where we have deep water that is relatively unused.
I'm not gonna say it's not used.
is used but if you compare the shallow water participants to the deep water
participants, way more shallow water participants. The splash pad is separate
from the larky pool, right? Correct. Okay, so if there is an accent there the wreck
pool is still there. They are on separate systems. Right, right, right. So if we had an all deep
pool, I'm taking this logical conclusion, if we had an all deep pool at the new
center and we had an all-wreck pool that's connected to the splash pad, if
There's snacks in the splash pad, the whole wreck pool's closed.
No wreck swimmers for, I don't know how long it takes, but no wreck swimmers are swimming.
Correct.
And there would be no shallow water to put them in.
Okay.
Thank you.
Okay.
Thank you.
Give me a minute here.
It's, I have a question about synchronized swimming.
And I saw Kim pop her head up.
But the question is, does synchronized swimming take, does the temperature in the water have
have to be higher for synchronized swimming than for other types of swimming.
And therefore, if it does, how would that be accommodated in a large pool that had a
bulkhead that is separating teams?
All right.
Are you asking this question of staff, or are you asking...?
Whoever can answer it.
Are you spending the conversation to include the synchronized swim team head coach?
Whoever can answer the question?
All right.
All right.
No, we don't.
No, we don't. We just like it warmer because we practice such long hours, but we're fine
in the...
Okay. Perfect. I love those short answers. Great. Thank you. Back to Kevin. How many
meets require 50-meter long course lanes? Ballpark.
How many meets that we host now?
How many meets, yeah, that we would typically look to accommodate?
We're not doing any.
Right, yeah.
Yeah, we're not doing each today.
Okay.
Which are the meets that can't be supported by the current design, cannot be supported
by the current design?
Which are the meets cannot be?
Which are the meets that we could potentially be dating on?
That we could potentially, but cannot be with this current design.
the only meat that we host currently is our 25 meter short course meat which in
the new design without a bulkhead we would not be able to support okay why is
that without because a 50 meter pool we would need the bulkhead to basically
cut it in half so you do 25 meters 25 meters and then we would be able to be
able to support that right now the diving well is 25 meters that's where we
run that one meat and the device the current design is 50 meters versus yards
that's the. Long, long versus short. Okay. So we're gonna take the long and cut it in
half with the bulkhead. I'm an American, I'm sorry. Okay, but there are certain,
there are certain meats that are run somewhere in the state that we would not
be able to handle in this current design. In the current design? You mean the
proposed? The proposed, proposed design. Again, technically not. I mean any meat
that we would want to run. As you heard from USA SWIM, for example, the largest
meat that USA SWIM tries to run here in the state is a 10-lane meat. And we have
13 lanes that are deep water so we could host any of those meats. Also, from
the long course, again, we've got stuff that all meets the requirements of the
competitive guidelines or regulations. It becomes a matter of how they choose to
run the meat and the methods they want to have, and does that serve their purposes there?
Once again, for example, on the long course meat where we've been told you can't run the
long course, well, you can run a long course, what you cannot do is run a long course starting
from both ends if it's not all deep at both ends.
Okay.
Okay.
Great.
No.
No.
No.
He's giving up wrong answers.
I don't know.
Mayor, how do you want to handle this?
I was just trying to contemplate that, yeah.
Let's, yes.
All I did was quote what he said at the podium here.
Okay, well, there's, we're not going to necessarily solve
that this evening, because nobody is on their best behavior.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you.
This probably is more for our city manager.
We received one of the letters that we received
from the Aquatics Foundation, and I'm gonna quote this
because I wanna make sure that I get this right.
They said that, staff will be presenting
a proposed two-pool design of one recreational pool
with six laps attached and one multi-use 50-meter pool
that reduces the pool space and functionality
of the swim center to less than what we have now,
much less than what we had when this facility
was built in 1970, and less than what our community wants
and needs for the future.
Further, the three swim teams who pay $350,000 in rent
to swim there year round will be negatively impacted.
Could you please explain that
and which parts are true in that, if any?
I think that gets to the crux of the issue
of things have to change compared to current
of having three pools at Clark Swim Center
compared to moving to two.
And it's going to require that times change,
days of weeks change, and I may defer here
to our aquatics folks, Kevin and or Karen here in a moment,
So, what was requested by the foundation was a full schedule of what occurs now,
when is it scheduled, days of week, what the different activities are,
and how that would work in this new dynamic.
And that was provided.
And there's obviously some differences of opinion on whether or not that accomplishes
that goal of accommodating all the existing programs.
I believe what we heard is the one challenge, I'll ask Kevin to clarify,
The one challenge is during the time frame
in which there's long course practices,
I believe it's for masters if I recall correctly,
that there'd be some challenges scheduling that
with Aqua Bears and there might need to be some change
to the time and the schedule.
Other than that, I believe that the programming is accommodated
or very close to being accommodated,
but I'll defer to Kevin to elaborate on that.
All right, so Karen has a visual aid, which is the schedule
that we provided to the Aquatic Foundation in December at their request, the operative
word here is conceptual. So it's multiple pages that includes new facilities at Heather
Farm and Larky. And so what we've done is try to identify all the opportunities we have
to accommodate the existing programs, including teams, including city programs, recognizing
that going from three pulls a two necessarily means less.
And so this is conceptual, this is not gospel,
this is not set in stone.
So there are opportunities for us to continue to refine this
as we look out three years from now into the future.
And so Karen has done an admirable job
of developing the schedule for the teams.
And I appreciate that Mike was also appreciative
of receiving this so we could have a starting point.
This is not the end point of the discussion
about the schedule.
That said, yes, when teams are in long course masters
or aqua bears and the synchronized swim team,
artistic swim team also is gonna be in there,
especially those four to seven times,
especially when we're not in summer, right?
That's a challenge, that's a challenge.
And so I think we all recognize that.
If the recommendation from the Aquatic Foundation
to have four additional lanes in the recreational pool
all shallow and the 50 meter pool is all deep,
I think we'd still have that challenge during long course.
And so that's a given.
It's just what can we do at Larky
and what can we potentially do at the rec pool
to help to offset some of those really tight uses
during those really narrow times.
Thank you.
I have one last question,
which Kevin, you're probably best to answer on this one.
If we went with all of the proposed changes
that we've seen from the aquatics foundation.
How much law, how give or take square footage,
how much less grass area would be available
to Heather Farm for picnickers,
for people just day uses that come and enjoy Heather Farm?
Well, and this goes back a ways in your evening,
what the assumption from city staff is the proposal,
their suggestions, requests from the Aquatic Foundation were to extend the 50-meter pool
to 52 with an L, to add lanes to the recreational pool, which would take up deck space but not
go into the park. And so it would be less deck space. As a result, you can probably
do the math. I can't do it in my head. But to add those two meters times 25 yards and
then four lanes times 25 yards.
But the request was to add deck space too.
How can you do both of those items?
Well, then you would have to go into the park.
Jocelyn Lauren Barish is our project architect.
She's been waiting all night to talk.
No, I really haven't.
You can wait till tomorrow if you wait 30 minutes.
I do have a number, though, for the specific ask
about rotating the recreational pool
and using the space in between the playground and the pond.
That is about 24K of square feet, 24,000 square feet
of less park space.
OK.
Thank you.
Six hours just for that.
Last question for Kevin.
This is the last one I got.
If we change the entire plan, I know we're not talking about
this, but I'm just curious.
If we change the entire plan to be in the current swim center
footprint, where Clark Center is,
could it fit?
Could the proposed design fit in the existing?
Could the proposed plan fit where the current footprint is?
I...
It's impossible.
We have a, I don't know, sort of.
Sort of, right?
We'd have to do the analysis
because you would have to change the bathhouse for certain.
That's gonna be much bigger.
There would be still two pools,
so you'd have less bodies of water,
But if you looked at that slide that we had up there,
it's similar inside, in fact, more water than we have today,
more deck space than we have today,
more landscape area than we have today.
So, yeah, and there's other issues
because if you'd also talk about
where's the community center gonna go now,
is that part of this project or not?
So it's complicated and staff's assumption
was that ship had sailed years ago.
So we have not been pursuing that.
I think that's my question, thank you.
Oh good, okay.
Council Member Silva.
I think some of this may be also the consultants.
And I'm gonna give you like four things
that seemed of the design issues
and I'm hoping with your expertise
and understanding of the requirements
that you can address them and I'll just give them all to you
and then you decide which order.
We've heard that the lanes aren't wide enough in some cases.
We've heard that the how do you separate, how can we be assured that, my words, that
we have separated the artistic swimmers and the lifts and the flies from lane swimmers
and accommodating spectators so that they can see and stand and look and that the step
down between the pools, and I'm not sure which direction it's going, this room might require
the engineer also is are we stepping so yes no and maybe no so I'm sorry your
first question again was about the lane widths because what we did with the how
many how many lanes are eight feet and how many are less than eight feet and
what is that in the 50 meter pool we have 13 lanes that are eight feet and
those are in the deep water correct and then we had the seven lanes in the
shallow water that are warm-up or other types of uses that are seven feet. I will also point out
that the current lanes in the 25 meter pool at Heather Farm are seven feet. And these are the
current lanes in the... The dive pool or the deep pool at Heather Farm. Okay, but not in the 50 meter
pool. 50 meter they're eight feet. Okay. We also originally had wider lanes. We originally had
We proposed the 50 meter pool to be eight lanes wide and at the request of the teams,
we added another lane and shallowed them so that they're roughly eight feet wide in the
50 meter as well.
We were going to show a wider lane to begin with.
So is that two alternatives that don't really make much difference from a?
So I mean, from the width of the lane, when you have multiple people having it wider,
It's easier to fit by.
And depending on the strokes.
Obviously, when somebody's trying to do a butterfly,
you're using up a lot of space, much more so
than a backstroke or a freestyle.
So I was trying to understand, is there a way to get?
How many lanes in eight?
OK, they want it all.
I get it.
So what loses the lanes in the 50 meter pool
is that we have the stairs at the end.
And so we had that small stair and we lose an end
because we no longer have an end wall target
where the stairs are.
And we put them on short course
because we only have nine lanes of long course anyway.
We can't afford to lose a lane off the end of the pool.
And so when we originally came in,
we came in making it all eight foot lanes,
but then we had 18.
And then we heard from the groups
that they really wanted more lanes.
So that's when we got creative and said,
let's take the shallow water lanes, we'll make them seven
feet and we can get ourselves back to 20 lanes again. And the
seven foot is the minimum width required by USA Swimming or any
of the competitive groups is a lane should not be any narrower
than seven feet.
So we have 13 at eight and the rest are seven at seven at seven
at seven. Seven at seven.
Correct. In terms of the height of the what's happening is we're
coming out of the building, right now we come out to the recreation pool and then because
of the topography of the site, rather than trying to do grading and bring everything
up or bring everything down, you come out to that pool and then there's the separation
to go up so that the deck for the 50-meter pool is higher than the deck of the rec pool.
The benefit to that is that we've now created a physical barrier, so if there's a swim meet
or there's small children playing here,
they can't just meander over to the deep competition pool.
The downside is you get less flexibility.
You can't say let's shove bleachers back six feet
because of that change right there.
You lose a little bit of that in return.
Also, if we were doing a high-end competition pool,
we would probably have done it the reverse,
which would have been say,
let's put the 50 meter and put it down low
so you create almost an amphitheater, if you will,
to be able to look down in.
Ray spectators are always a preferred approach
to what you want to do there.
But once again, if we put the 50,
we also try to bring, as I mentioned at the beginning,
have the pool so that when the little kids come out,
they're not coming out to 14 feet of water.
They're not coming out to that deep water.
Also, the way we're trying to lay this site out,
we're trying to lay it out
so that we could have competitive water polo artistic
swim or swim teams and still be able to have a senior fitness
program or other things happen at the same time.
And we wouldn't necessarily try to take the little ones
or seniors and say, you've got to go up
the hill to the higher pool.
So for all those reasons, that's why the 50 got put back
so that it's more.
If we want the little ones to use the bathroom
for the fecal accidents, we want them as close to the bathroom
we can. So putting it farther away does ourselves a disservice in that regard.
The other question that came up was about the separation of the artistic
swimming from the... Yes, so there's, I mean, there's numerous ways to do it.
Part of it is supervision. We can obviously have a barrier where we put a
buffer so we say, hey, we're gonna open up one lane, we're gonna open up two lanes,
we can have lane lines that float there, we have cables that can run across with
nets that come across. We can do both of those. All of those are ways to try to
divide that space. The idea of the movable bulkhead is that we can
actually create a physical barrier and if we had a movable bulkhead, it allows
us anywhere the water is eight feet deep or less we can park that movable bulkhead.
So those 13 lanes that we said are deep, anywhere to the end of that 13th lane
would be locations as to where we can park the bulkhead. Basically everywhere
except the last 50 feet of the pool of that 164 feet or or 170 feet if we're
gonna make it to 52 meters so we can do it by times we can do it by buffer
areas and how we control or manage that buffer area we can do it with you know
the Larky pool versus what's happening at Clark we can you know there's a
number of ways to get to it, and we've had that conversation with artistic
swim and everybody about, you know, can you be in this pool without somebody
with somebody else using it? Yes or no? Same thing's even true with diving boards
off the end of the pool, right? And City of Walnut Creek knows that very well,
where how do we control divers coming off the board and make sure a swimmer
doesn't get into that space? And again, buffer lanes are one, you've got lane
lines to divide a movable bulkhead is another scheduling of when those things are being
used.
All of those are ways to try to manage that.
Try a couple.
Dennis?
Yes.
So, have, you know, in the discussion back and forth on the 18 versus 20 lanes, have
you guys sat down with the Aquatic Foundation and asked them, would you rather have this
many smaller lanes or a larger number?
I mean, when we started with the 18 and they asked for the additional, so then we went
to without making the pool larger to stay within the 50-meter pool,
those are our only choices in terms of what we can do.
Have you had the actual conversation with Aquatic Foundation about which?
I don't know.
Let me just, I'll offer, sorry, I'll offer that the Aquatic Foundation proposal is eight-foot
lanes and you have 18 lanes in their proposal.
So that's their, I think that's their offer, that's their proposal.
So we could talk to them some more,
but I think that's where they stand.
That's predicated on adding four lanes to the rec pool.
Well, the first priority that they offered
was extending the pool 52 meters,
to 52 meters with the bulkhead,
and second to that was the 50 meter without the bulkhead,
and then farther down the proposal
was the four lanes and the rec pool.
So while I think they may be combined,
their first priority was the all-deep pool
for the 50 meters.
So it's all deep in all requests.
Or the L.
Yeah.
So that's the idea of the L, is to avoid the all-deep special purpose if possible.
And so basically the 50 meter itself, that envelope is all deep.
Sorry to interrupt.
Yeah, that's OK.
Getting back to the other, the question about spectator space, and this, I don't know if
this is going to be you or...
If we, I know we have a lot of other excavation and stuff that's going on in the area.
Is it possible to extend that out, the higher, the elevated area out further to give more
room for audience?
There is, in terms of spectators, the very first thing we assumed were movable bleachers,
which are the most economical way to deal with this, and realize that if we have long
course swimming you want to you prefer to watch swimmers go across your field
of vision so you can see them start and finish and not have them going away from
you or what have you or at you so because of that that means short course
you'd really like to be in one location long course should be in another
location water polo was more like you know so artistic it's it's all over so
that's where very often in these aquatic centers we go to movable bleachers and
In using movable bleachers, the division of state architect
has ruled that if we have five tiers or less,
it does not require special ADA accessibility to them.
We certainly could come in and say,
we're going to do built-in bleachers and make it much taller.
We can do it raised so that there's better viewing
and all those things.
It's all a matter of budget and fit to the site.
So we certainly play with the site to fit more.
But ultimately, we're trying to get more water, more deck,
more turf and-
Yeah, and I was thinking to deal with some of the problems
of visibility during a big city meet,
classic, the parents all just line up on the step.
Is it possible to push that deck back just a little bit?
And-
I would say you-
Our landscape architect that's working on this site
can answer that better than I.
Is the presentation still available
where we could all see the same thing
that you might be talking about.
Just one of the site plans would be fine.
Thank you.
Sure.
For the record, my name's Gina Chavez,
landscape architect on the project.
So to answer your question, yes,
we could, this is one of the spectator spaces right here.
So we could push that to the left
because we're regrading this whole area anyway.
right now the slope is doing something like this.
So we're flattening it out and having two tiers.
So it's a matter of regrading and adding retaining moles,
but then of course that's going to impact the deck
or the landscape in the recreation pool area.
But can that move further to the west as well?
Correct, yes.
Because it's the recreational family pool
isn't a spectator pool, generally.
Yes, that's true.
I hope, unless we're doing something else later.
No, that is true, yes.
That could also move to the west.
Okay.
Yeah, we do have a berm there on the lawn area to help screen that area, so we would
have to shift that as well.
So as you can see, we're getting closer to the pond, basically.
There's only so far you can go where you fall into the pond.
We don't want to do that.
that stay on the concrete, as drawn.
And then, thank you, and this is one last Dennis question.
So the conflict between long course and aquanauts,
how would you solve it?
Carefully.
Yes.
You know, the issue is long course uses a whole lot of pool
for not a lot of people, right?
If we came in and said we've got the short course
and we're running 18 lanes or 20 lanes,
we get a lot of people in the pool.
When it's long course,
you don't get as much utilization there.
And the problem is in long course,
unless we agree in long course to say,
we're gonna cut the pool in half
and long course is only using part of it.
And once again, how do we manage the artistic swimmers
and what they're doing for their practices?
It's the issue that we're all trying to be
in the same place at the same time.
So whether that's scheduling,
And we come in and say, here's the hours.
And once again, there's so many hours in a day.
And there's desired time right after school, right after work.
We need to get home for dinner and homework and all the other.
It's one of those issues.
I know that part of this was being
used with Larky Swim Center.
And when we designed the renovation at Larky Swim Center,
we actually made a paradigm shift in our design approach
where two-thirds of Larky was designed as deep water pool
for that very reason, to say,
and doing what we're doing with Clark,
we still can use it for swim teams,
we could use it for artistic swimming and stuff,
and so that was why, again,
two-thirds of that pool are deep water,
and only a third was that shallow wreck
to try to help accommodate or alleviate some of that.
Is there enough room at Larky
to move the whole program over there
during the four to six weeks or whatever long course.
But I don't know.
This is a Karen question.
No?
You're at both?
Or ask it the other way, which is when is the long course?
Okay, so how I've envisioned this.
So during our winter months, right now, we, in 2023,
we had about a six week long, long course set up.
During that time, that's one of Synchro's busiest times.
So it would be difficult to get their whole team
into Larky.
It probably wouldn't happen.
In the summertime, we start Long Course ending May,
beginning of June.
Synchro wraps up their competition mid to end June.
I've done some playing once they're
done with their competition.
And as the competition's complete,
the girls go on break.
We don't have as many girls in the pool.
Right now, as it stands, I've been
trying to keep Larky in the summertime
when our swim lessons end, the pool closes,
trying to keep our costs down.
However, in the summertime with this new facility,
I would keep that pool open and Synchro could run
their peanuts and their camps and their programs
the summertime when most of their girls are on break
and the pool at Clark is long course in the evening,
that's a shift that I think we could manage.
So it sounds like the winter long course.
The winter's gonna be, that's the biggest challenge.
That's the challenge.
Okay, thank you.
I'm learning things I never thought I'd ever, yeah.
So I appreciate, I think this is Kevin and Karen.
You know, we got the conceptual schedule.
We also had a pretty detailed schedule
from the Aquatics Foundation,
you know, which shows loss of 17 lanes for the Aquabears
and loss of five lanes for the Masters.
Have you had an opportunity to review this
and reconcile it with your conceptual schedule
and determine whether this-
Short answer is no, what I would...
Depending on the outcome of this evening,
we will sit down with the Aquatic Foundation and say,
okay, well, let's compare this conceptual schedule
to yours and see where there's opportunities,
as Karen just described tonight,
to find some common ground here, or common ground.
Okay.
So we got that information so late.
what does a loss of 17 lanes mean?
I understand the words,
but I don't know if that's 17 lanes out of 100 lanes
or 17 lanes out of 19 lanes.
I mean, I-
I think it's compared to what they have now,
and it's 17 total lane rentals weekly,
is how it's described.
So...
And they break it down by Monday through the weekday,
the time, season of the year, Saturday, summer.
Yeah, we haven't had a chance to dig into that.
Can I ask a question, too, that if the 50 meter were all deep,
what is the limitation of the rec pool?
Why is it that we, the city, couldn't do all of our rec
programming in those six lanes?
Or what are the limiting factors?
Well, if the 50 meter pool were all deep
and we lost the seven lanes that would be shallow there,
and you're asking why couldn't we do what we do in the six?
Without adding lanes to the rec pool,
it would be that loss, all right?
That shallow water in the 50 meter pool,
if it's not added to the rec pool,
we couldn't do that in the smaller space.
If we added it, added the proposal from the foundation
adding four lanes to the rec pool, if it's all shallow,
we could do more programming there, certainly.
We just lose that flexibility that we talked about earlier.
The 50 meter pool.
Both sides seem to be worried
about losing that flexibility.
Absolutely, and I understand that.
But it's not, I guess I wanna,
there was talk of like kayaks and turkey tosses,
and I appreciate that,
but I don't think that's the driving factor.
I just wanna drill down on that.
It's not we need those extra shallow lanes
in the 50-meter pool for turkey tosses or kayak races.
No, the shallow lanes that are being proposed
in the current city design
are to accommodate existing city programs.
as we look into the next two, three, four decades,
we don't know what's gonna happen,
which is why the flexibility
from the city perspective is important.
Not just because there could be a reason
where we shut down one of the pools,
I wanna move some of the programming
from the rec pool to the 50.
If I have shallow water, I can do that.
But we don't know what's gonna happen in the future.
You know, is the city still gonna be in the business?
Probably, or the swim team's gonna be here?
Probably.
But if, for whatever reason, we choose not to do it,
and we looked at that several years ago,
if the swim team would say, we're done,
having a facility that can be used in multiple ways
for the next 20, 30, 40 years
from staff's perspective makes sense.
Okay, I think my final question is either for Kevin
or the city manager, just the impacts of the proposal
or maybe for Steve, how we came up
with a four to $6 million figure,
what's the driving factor of that cost?
Josh Long will be able to answer that.
I might need more clarification
than what's the driving factor.
Well, I mean, is it making the pool deeper?
Is it adding the four lanes?
Is it the bulkhead?
Like what's costing the most?
So of the four to six million,
the 52 meter bulkhead option costs about one and a half
of that, one and a half million.
Adding four lanes at the six deep lanes in the rec pool
is nearly three million.
adding the additional deck space and landscape space,
taking up that space between the pond and the playground
is 1.1 million and the scoreboard's about 500K.
That's the breakdown.
And it's a swing of between four and six and there's-
That's to do with the fact
that these are not designed elements.
Yeah.
And you therefore have a very, very, very,
variable estimation of the actual construction
and project soft costs that accompany those.
For all those factors and your best professional judgment,
it would not be less than $4 million.
That's right.
Okay, that's helpful, thank you.
Jocelyn, remind me, or Steve,
the, out of the big cost,
is it about 25 million for the aquatics portion as proposed?
And does that include the bathhouse?
At 1156 at night, I do not know that I can tell you exactly that.
Well, we'll hope that Steve has it.
Thank you.
So, and I want to be clear, when we say $25 million,
that was construction costs, not the $77 million is the all-in costs.
And that includes design, soft cost.
So, essentially, the best way to look at it is it's a 50-50 split between the community
center and between the pools and the bathhouse associated with the pools.
So if you were to take the pools out,
we could build the facility for half of the 77 million.
If we didn't build the one,
so it's a pretty even split between the two.
Now I got lost.
So the bath, let me just be clear,
when the bath house and the pools,
and we talk about the $25 million number,
that's all together.
Okay. Right.
And then the community centers, another 25 million
and the 20 additional 25 so it's a third a third a third is soft cost cost about 30 percent of
soft cost and that doesn't account for the debt costs at this point in time no the debt cost
the deck that we're not not deck debt interest oh no the debt costs have not been included in that
Okay so the four to six million is another 20-25 percent on the total and it has impacts
in a lot of different directions if I. That's correct. Okay thank you. Are we ready to,
yes go to sleep for sure, are we ready to kind of consolidate our thoughts and and because
I mean a lot of people want to go home and we need to know what is next steps for the staff.
You know I'm prepared to give some thoughts. I don't know that
I'm prepared to make a final decision tonight because I think even talking to Kevin and I know
that we just got the information late that we haven't had the opportunity to review
what the aquatic foundation is saying in terms of the loss of lanes and I think that's important
information. I wish we would have got it sooner but we didn't and I think it needs to be factored
into the decision making. So thank you all for coming tonight and those of you who are still
here and those who came earlier. Obviously this is an extremely exciting project. It's
this particular project is really one of the main reasons why I ran for re-election
in 2022 because it was that important to me to see Measure O be successful and to see this project
built. We are a swim community. This is in our fiber. All, I think most of us, our children have
swam both in rec pools and then swam at City Meat and I'm a big believer in
the community aspects of not just city meet but what the masters do, what the aqua bears do.
I'm a huge fan of the aqua nuts. Whenever we have a community service there we ask them to do
anything. They show up and they're shoveling tan bark and doing whatever they can to help the city
and they're world renowned and full of Olympians. So I love the community aspects of this. I think
that you know at some point you know earlier on perhaps we could have
articulated more clearly kind of what our our must-haves in the facility and
what are nice to have and I think we we reached the point where you know the
competition pool was going to be 50 meter and I think that was a significant
achievement but to me the must-haves are the ability to accommodate our existing
user groups and community programming including the city meet, the conference
meet, the aqua nuts fall show, and each of the teams that currently use the pool.
And I don't think we're quite there yet. There's some conflicts and then
potentially other conflicts with these lane losses that I see. So that's a must
have for me that that we are able to achieve that and then kind of a nice to
have would be the competitive events and the addition of water polo and things
like that so there are things we don't do now it'd be nice to have but I don't
think it was what was driving our decision-making when we or was driving
the decision-making on the pool the entire time so I definitely think there
needs to be a balance here. Not just what the teams need but what the community
needs and I appreciate Kevin acknowledging that both sides really
want flexibility and it comes at the flexibility of the other side and there
does there needs to be a balance as has been said multiple times here and there
needs to be a compromise. So I think what's proposed is pretty close to there.
there's still some conflicts that need to be resolved. But it was interesting, I
kind of had the aha moment with the long course and the aqua nuts that it
doesn't matter whether it's shallow or deep, that conflict is still going to
exist because the aqua nuts aren't going to be in the diving wall, that's separate
diving wall, that's going from three to two. So I've kind of articulated kind of
what my must haves are and what my nice to haves are.
And the reason why, and not that I want to delay this,
and I'm, but I also feel like it's been 14 years
and we want to get it right.
And I think we have some new information here
that it would be helpful, I think for, to me for staff
to go back and meet with the stakeholders
and meet with a consultant, sharpen their pencils
on the schedule, on the conceptual schedule,
and on this chart that we got from the Aquatics Foundation,
and see if there's a way that we can minimize
these conflicts more and get to a point
where everyone is feeling more comfortable
with the proposal and the proposed design.
Who wants to go next?
I'll go next.
I'm the new one on the, the new kid on the block.
And this has been going on forever.
And we have struggled with this for years.
I mean, from 2012 to 2020,
there wasn't a consensus on the council
on whether or not to do a revenue measure
that was essential to getting there.
And I think council member Silva did a great job
of keeping the flame alive and keeping the project moving.
And I appreciate that because when I came on in 2020,
it gave us a council that was unified
in the importance of raising the money
to do the things that we wanted to do.
And that's where we got Measure O on,
and we're successful in getting it.
And I think what I've heard here today
is all the interest groups here
have the same common interests.
They all want to see the rec programs, be successful.
They want to see the competitive programs, be successful.
And they want a project that's financially
and environmentally sustainable.
And so we have that common interest.
I think it comes, and people have put a lot of work
into coming up with the proposal.
And I think we're close, but I think there are some things
that still need some work.
You know, how can we work around the conflicts
on the long course versus the aquanauts?
How can, is there a way to make sure
that we have enough deck space near the competition pool
so that people have room to watch their kids swim
at city meet.
What is the right configuration of lanes?
And do we have, I haven't spent time
with the analysis of the usage,
but I think it would be worth it to spend a little time
looking at that in cooperation between the consultant
and the staff and the interest groups
to see if they can reach some agreement there.
I think one of the things,
and I really appreciate staff's commitment to us
that they're sticking by the $77 million budget
that we gave them at the beginning,
because we don't have unlimited money
and we have a lot of other things,
as several people reminded us,
that we need to do with Measure O.
But I am, we're spending a lot of money,
a lot of time, this is a once in a generation time,
If it takes another, and I never want to say
a million dollars is a small increment of money,
but if there is some increment of money
that is not unreasonable to solve the problem,
I would want staff to bring that back to us.
And I'm not looking at this as being,
oh, go study this for four months.
I want to stick to the schedule that we have
where we're trying to wrap this up no later than April.
So, spend some concentrated time except for people that are now down to their last day
and not going to be there.
That would be my concept is give them some direction and ask them to come back to see
if we can work some of these things out.
Thank you to everyone who has joined us for March 6th.
We don't have these very often and so,
but this is an important project
and I appreciate the passion that everyone has
and hopefully that passion can translate into fundraising
because that is part of the obligation to this.
I think I'm gonna go back to the four factors
that were established in 2016
after we looked at all the issues
over and over and over again,
is that we needed facilities
that would offer a balance of programming
between recreational community family users
and competitive teams.
We need to make sure that we can offer learn to swim.
We need to make sure that families of all types,
sizes and income levels who can't afford a $3,600 buy-in to be on the aquabears and can't afford
that. That is not inexpensive. Have a place to play and you can't assume that it's going to be
in these non-existent swimming pools in old apartment buildings that are breaking down as well.
There is no obligation of an apartment owner to rebuild their pools and the health code
requirements and the building code requirements kind of get in the way.
We also established in 2016 that we had to have the funds to be able to do this and it
was, we were at a stalemate because we couldn't get a revenue measure on the ballot and we
knew from community input and data gathering that a revenue measure that was just, that
we had many issues to address and if we couldn't combine them into a single measure we were
going to be dead on arrival. And we had learned that in other ways, other communities were
learning that this was a way for us to be able to address public safety concerns, downtown
economic development, homeless services, sustainability actions, extended and sustainable library
hours. And it's not one hour, it's six or seven or eight hours a week, you have to buy
them in bulk. So at this point we have a budget, and so whatever we do, yes, maybe we can
eke out another million, but I don't see us increasing by 25% the cost to building this
aquatics facility. We've got to find a way to compromise. Everybody has to give a little.
And we also set out with a goal to ensure that we could improve our cost recovery, not
make it worse.
Because when things in the lien time, if you make your cost recovery on a prep basis and
shaky on the lien times, you close it because you can't afford to keep it open.
And so you want to be, have sustainable funding.
So I'm going to just go through a couple of things.
We don't, I don't think we have four to $6 million
to add into this pool.
If we're going to resolve the apparent conflicts,
we're gonna have to do it within at the edges.
Yeah, well, exactly.
I think the city manager's reality check
on the economic opportunity,
we're not gonna be able to pay for additional
with the TOT transit occupancy tax on hotel nights
because it would take years and years and years
and years and years of that.
And it's certainly not gonna come from cups of coffee.
Maybe from a McLaren.
At $500,000 you can,
but even that you need a lot of McLarens to be sold.
It's not about revenues for the teams.
I appreciate that that's, you know, that's your goal
in order to keep your costs lower to your members, et cetera.
But that isn't the way I anticipated
you were going to raise the funds
to pay us the $3 million because
otherwise we would have needed to know that
two and a half, three years, four years ago
as we were discussing the MOU.
And for me, it's not about All Deep
because I think as my colleague Francois said,
All Deep just makes this inflexible.
It says it's all about one side and not the other.
And the proposals that I'm seeing right now go from,
which is why I asked the numbers to be repeated,
if you have 14 deep lanes and 12 shallower, they're not.
That's not the beach entry, it's the shallower lanes.
That was 55, 56% versus 44, that's pretty good balance.
It's still advantage deep.
All of the other options are just going more and more toward advantage competitive.
And we didn't set out to build the next version of the Stanford Avery Center or the Irvine
Wallette, in my pronounce, Wallette Center.
We didn't set it.
We never thought we could do that.
We don't have enough land.
And these are not joint use pools.
what's really happening I think if we really studied it is that the way people
are getting in other communities whether it's I might be wrong but I bet that's
what Clovis is doing if these joint use pools are what is in fact allowing
people to get the deeper water the more competitive one joint use it means it's
maybe like the North Natomas pool is it's on set west it's on Sacramento land
in Sacramento's park. City of Sacramento built the rec center and the recreational and the play
water and Natomas Unified School District which is across this their high schools across the street
built the aquatics the 50 meter pool for 11.6 million dollars. I just read about it you know
you can look it up online. So that's a complicated joint use agreement but it's not dissimilar what
what we do with Castle Rock and the joint use fields
that we have there or the Foothill Gymnasium.
We have those opportunities in the community.
We didn't take it here.
The high school wasn't close enough.
And I think that's where I'm going to land on this.
To me.
Sorry, that's your turn.
You get to go last, right?
Oh, were you looking for me to do?
Oh, is it?
No, no, no.
Oh no, no, no, I go last.
All right, all right.
I go last.
Well, first of all, thank you to the community
that was certainly here through most of the night.
Thank you very much those who have stayed
through all of this, and I know there's a lot of people
that are still probably went home and are watching as well.
I've been discussing a new pool
since I first ran for city council in 2016.
And...
You're a newbie.
I'm a newbie, yeah.
And certainly, this is the biggest project
since the Lesser Center and maybe since the Clark Center itself, this may be the biggest
project that we've ever actually had in Walnut Creek, you know, in any of our lifetimes.
And it's certainly the most costly project that the city's ever undertaken and we have
Measure O to thank for that and certainly the community in supporting that.
We also know that with Measure O came public safety, as we heard, and all weather ball
fields, homelessness.
So there were a lot of aspects of Measure O, certainly not just the swimming.
And as we heard from the city manager, the survey actually had swimming down on the list,
but that is absolutely getting the lion's share of the overall Measure O funds, that's
how late it is in March 6th.
But as large as it is, it's not an unlimited amount of money and unlimited checks can't
be written.
So as much as, so we have to do as much as we can, but we still have to have an eye on
the budget that goes with it.
And I've been a proponent for a new swim center since I got on the council and have always
been a vocal proponent for the 50-meter pool and the Aquatics Foundation can attest to
that.
I met with several times over the last eight years, the Aquatics Foundation, in vocalizing
my support for a 50-meter pool.
But frankly, when it comes to deep water, the first time I've heard about an all-deep
water pool has just been the last six months. I don't know whose fault that is
but I was there to listen over the last eight years and I never did actually
hear that. And as we know recreational swimmers are a large part of the pool.
Councilmember Francois mentioned that most of our kids have swam in the pool. My
kids got lessons at the Clark Center and became good swimmers that came out of
that. I think most of us had have used it at some point and unlike the Aquatics
Foundation and the groups and whether it's the aqua nuts, the aqua bears,
you're all tightly organized. I commend you for that. The recreational swimmers
are not organized at all. They're out there and they're just gonna go with
whatever we give them but they're half the people, well more than maybe half
people that come, it's half the revenue that the city gets from it. We have to
take them into consideration even though they're not representative here in the
meeting. There's still 75,000 people in Walla Creek and there's 15,000 more that
have Walla Creek as their address that are in the unincorporated county. They're
all paying for Measure O. This is all their tax money, just like all of our
tax money. We have to take them into consideration. Without taking them into
consideration for the uses of this, we're not doing a service to the community. And
And when I hear some of the proposals that we can program eight or nine days in a row,
we can program every single weekend.
That just knocks out all the recreational swimmers that are paying a large portion,
that are really paying more of the Measure O tax funds than anybody else.
And they're not going to be able to use the swim center.
And when I hear about...
To drive down Ignacio Valley Road.
When I hear about the fence that could potentially end up going around one pool, that just doesn't
look even inviting then. Then you come in as a swimmer, even if you're not going to
use the pool, it looks like you're not even allowed to go in the pool. And it's
just, it gives me an uneasy feeling about that as well. The, I'm in favor of
designing a facility that gives everyone as much as we can realistically provide.
But it doesn't mean that we may be able to give everyone everything for all
parties involved. There do have to be some trade-offs here, and just like each
of our households, we may want to build a huge big room or a huge new living room, and
then we have a budget that we have to do it with.
And that's the same here, because the budget that we're talking about, this is not just,
oh, this is the city budget.
This is all of our budget.
These are all our taxpayers of Walnut Creek.
This is our budget.
We are tasked as representatives with spending the money of the taxpayers, of our residents.
And we're benefitting that Measure O funds are actually coming from half of outside
Wallin Creek people that are going toward a Wallin Creek facility.
That's a huge benefit.
But I take my fiduciary responsibility really seriously when it comes to spending taxpayer
dollars and getting the biggest bang for the buck for the entire community.
And I don't want to overextend ourselves on this.
And I'm concerned about delaying a design for any reason, which does mean increased
costs to the community.
I'm also concerned, after over a decade of talking about this, that if we're talking
about 5 to 10 percent increased costs, you know, that will be going for the next 50 years,
what can we do?
What can we do to make it possible to make all groups, all swimmers, everybody as happy
as we can?
Because what bothers me is what if we vote on something that the swim groups don't like
because it doesn't give them everything they want.
And now the message that goes out to the community is that we've got a terrible project when
this project is far surpassing what we currently have
and probably what we could only have dreamt about
eight to 10 years ago.
So there is a concern that we're not gonna have the support
of the community for this.
I do, just to help give some direction on this
and it sounds like from what I've just heard
that we're certainly not gonna be making
any final decisions tonight,
but I would support a bulkhead.
I do, I think that's a good use of money
for helping with the flexibility.
The four extra lanes in the rec pool,
if it's possible to do,
I would look at that as a potential option.
I think the scoreboard,
I think the scoreboard's a great idea.
I think we can figure out a way to get that.
I do, I mean, it's a scoreboard.
I actually think that the cost is,
and I'll put this in quotes,
relatively low enough
that maybe the Aquatics Foundation can help
something like that,
because that scoreboard is gonna be used by them,
not the recreational swimmers.
The all-deep lanes, the biggest concern I have there
is we lose the flexibility with recreation.
We lose the flexibility if there's an accident
in the recreational pool.
And not just an accident of a dirty diaper,
but an accident that, whatever, who knows,
a pump goes out, whatever it is.
That pool has to close,
and that's it for rec swimmers for that day.
So I do have concerns about the all-deep concept there.
But this is going to be a huge benefit to the community for decades
And we should all be happy when we do end up voting. We should all be happy walking out that we've got a a great facility
Whatever happens it may not cover every single thing that everybody wants, but let's not let great
Be the enemy of perfect for all parties because I honestly don't think
Whatever we end up doing is going to be the perfect solution for all parties
I just don't see how that's going to happen, but I do believe that what we've
heard tonight, the democratic process has thoroughly worked in this
case because we've got public representation, we've had staff outreach,
we've had community feedback and open discussion and voting is going to
occur at some point, but this is the democratic process in full action. I do
I do want to say that I do believe that we gave approval
at the council level for conceptual ideas and design
without getting the full feedback from the community
that we've certainly heard
over the last few months and tonight.
I wonder if we had had all of that and then had a vote
on how we were going to move forward.
They have been altered a little bit
and there is some angst I have about that.
It almost felt like we voted for the cart
before the horse a little bit.
But anyway, I don't know how helpful that all is,
but that's my feedback.
Can I ask a point of clarification?
Thank you for your very thoughtful comments on this.
You had suggested the potential
for adding four lanes to the wreck pool.
Can you just elaborate on that a little bit?
What the purpose of those four additional lanes
would be given that, as I understand it,
a 50 meter pool would still be in this proposed configuration.
The, oh, well so if that,
because we're saying that if that went along
with the full deep water.
Well, I guess I'm looking at it as an option
of programming opportunities.
And if we're losing programming in certain areas,
I do wanna make sure the aqua nuts have their,
what they need to be able to practice and have their show.
I want everybody to be able to have
what they currently have.
I know water polo has been part of that.
and I think that there is going to be the availability
for water polo to be involved.
I don't know what that means for the rec pool
and maybe that means that there are some deeper areas.
I'm not sure, I think there's a lot of ambiguity still.
If I could have a follow up and maybe after the mayor goes
and we can consolidate direction a little bit
because I'm hearing a few inconsistencies on the one hand,
there's an interest in staying within the 77 million
or close to it.
The rec lanes just as an example,
the four additional rec lanes is estimated currently
as $3 million.
So that's far beyond a marginal difference on the 77.
So I think that's something we're going to need
to reconcile for direction.
Yeah, and I look at the decision-making
because we do all want to see the Aquanauts
and the Aquabears having workable
so that they can keep their teams at the level they're at.
And if it ends up being people work on it
and they can't come up with a way to make it work
with the 77 million configuration,
I would want to know what does it cost to get us there?
And then we have to weigh and measure that.
But, well, it's, you know, we have, yeah,
we have to look at the overall budget at that point.
But I would want to know,
So one of the things I'm challenged with here is we have one option here.
We had two options for the building.
And so I'm just looking for a little option.
Is there, if there's something out there that gets the full, the ability for the teams to
stay at their current levels, I want to know what that is.
I had a few more thoughts, just two quick ones.
So I thought it was important to point out, and I think Kevin did this, or maybe our consultant
at it, but we are going from six deep lanes to 13 or 14.
I saw different numbers, at least 13.
So it's an increase, like, you know,
it's a pretty significant increase
in the number of deep lanes.
It's not all deep, but it's an increase.
And then I'll just say, too, my concern with adding an L,
I think it's a technicality to me.
It seems it satisfies the code, but then to me,
it's not no longer a community pool. So I have a concern with making the 50 meter all deep for
that reason because I think it needs to still have a community function. So maybe we can agree
at least on whether it should be all deep or not and whether we're going to worry about
an activity that is such as water polo that isn't there now as if it's an opportunity lost. And I
understand everything's there are always opportunity loss opportunity losses but
maybe we can give them direction on that that issue because everything else is
hinge is tearing off of it and tell me if I'm wrong you everything else is
tearing off of that well I think we could break those apart I think what I'm
hearing and I sorry I don't want to know I don't have that much to say is that we
We have a common interest in maintaining the existing teams.
We have other activities like water polo that we are not going to be spending if there's
an incidental way to get them in, but we're not going to go out and spend another $30
million to get water polo here.
That chipped in a long time ago.
How's that sounding?
I think they, I strongly recommend that we try to find a way to decide whether we're
in it all deep or not, because I don't know how you just have a discussion with the users
because this is always going to come back to that.
I don't see.
And I guess I'm anticipating that we give everybody a copy of Getting He Asks and we
go to that.
That's great.
And we're 17 years into this.
I'm gonna go back to, we're 17 years into this
and getting to yes is pretty hard at this point.
And at some point those, I mean, I'm willing to say,
I don't see that we can afford the all deep
and it's not balanced.
And it's going to force us to add wreck lanes
in a park that can't take any more space.
I mean, can't give up any more space.
They're going to run into the all abilities playground.
And even just being able to make that decision
and then address the, now, how do we make it work
in that confine?
Is it the bulkhead and the extra space?
Is it a stretch a little more?
But that's what I'm feeling,
is that that lack of that decision is just going to,
we're gonna be circling and circling
and circling and circling.
So I'm gonna money the water even a little bit more.
And that is essentially to say that I am not
looking at just the pool and what's happening.
It's the impact on the entire park.
Because if we turn this only into an aquatic-focused decision,
we have probably completely changed
the use of Heather Farm Park.
If we, if people are starting to look at coming in
and invading our all abilities playground,
just because water is more important than anything else,
I'm concerned that we will then look at everything.
We will go down a slippery slope that doesn't,
that doesn't leave the park what we intended it to be,
the forefathers intended it to be,
which is a place where the community,
and in this case, I look at a larger community
than just Walnut Creek,
although I've heard and agree strongly with,
we have to understand that most of our money
comes from the people in the community.
But I think we really do need to say
that everything that I've heard
about the amazingness of the aquatics for the participants
and how it makes the kids and adults
gives them lots of freedom and lots of changes.
I'm trying to figure out how this all fits
into the greater good of the park.
And I don't even know how to bring my concerns
down to whether it's all deep in one of the two pools
or whether it isn't.
I basically, as I'm sitting here listening to everything
that everybody says and trying in my mind
to solve the problem, I'm thinking,
move the pool to an entirely different place in the city.
And where we've got bare land, ha, ha, ha.
and start all over again.
And that does go outside of the Measure O,
because in order to defer that much,
we are going to pay millions more in the deferred ability
to buy stuff and in financing.
So it's a bad result no matter how hard I try to figure it
out.
It's a perfect solution.
Yeah, I mean, and then you go into parking,
And if everybody comes to the big meets,
what the flip are we going to do with all those cars?
It's just, it's not just the pools.
So I kind of, I will honestly say that I flipped probably
50-50 between the two choices.
I think my leaning at this moment
is that we do the, we don't do an all deep pool
and that we recognize that taking the whole of the park
and not just protecting everybody's dream team
and say that that is the one that is going to be
the least damaging to what we have tried to do
in the, for our community as a whole.
I understand all of the good things that your dreams have,
but I believe that, I believe that we need to keep,
make the big pool, the lane pool, multi-use.
I will say that I appreciate the fact
that we're having this conversation
before we've broken ground.
I mean because obviously we can still make changes.
We're at the design phase and yes it would cost some money
but there can still be changes that are made
that will help solve maybe not every conflict that there is
but perhaps many and maybe even most.
So I wanted to make sure that we as a council
recognize that, we've waited a long time,
waiting a couple months more to make sure
that we get this right, even though,
I don't think any of us wanna be here till 1230,
again at some point, but let's get this as right as we can,
even if it's not perfect.
Okay, so do we agree that the decision to be made
to give the staff the ability to complete the job is
whether it's one all deep pool and one recreation area
or that we have a pool that can be used
for both of the purposes.
I think it goes back to what council member Darling said
was that are we convinced the plan we have now
maintains the existing teams?
And I have information from the foundation
that says it's not.
So put the, I mean I appreciate that you were trying to get clarity on, I think I did get
clarity on the deep thing because I asked multiple times, is the depth needed for programming?
And I was told it's not, it's needed so that they can host large revenue generating needs.
So that's fine.
I respect that.
I appreciate that.
But that's not my must have.
I must have is maintain the existing teams.
And I've just, I'm not,
because of this information that we had,
I've just, maybe it can be worked out later.
And I don't know what the fix would be
if it's, if it doesn't maintain the existing teams.
I don't, I'm pretty sure it's not making it deeper.
It may be adding lanes and that's a whole nother conversation
that's quite expensive.
So we need, we need to be flexible.
and we need to have a balanced approach,
but that's the thing I'm hung up on.
And I think I agree with you on,
my must haves do not include large revenue producing meets
other than the existing city meet, conference meet,
the meets that the teams are currently holding.
The teams, the meets,
there are some things like the Aquanauts show
that help that team function, and they're doing it now,
and we wanna be able to have that continue into the future.
A big revenue generating meat, if it worked
and we don't have to pay anything more to get to that,
we could have a conversation about it,
but I don't wanna put the city on the hook
for a bunch of money for a meat
that is just raising revenue.
But my things that I do wanna see is
keep those existing functions and keep those existing meets and make sure that
we have a solution that lets people do those things.
How do we give enough direction? I think there may be a difference
between, in two sides, one saying the lanes are here and the other
saying oh no it's not. I think they're, I think it's the same body of water with
two different lenses, and that could be a problem in the conversation.
We are not solving the Gaza Strip right now.
I have confidence that the aquatics folks and the staff have heard what we're struggling
with and can have some real discussions about, and they know what's within the realm of possibility
And what's, I mean, if you add up everything
that they had in their original ask,
it's probably beyond what we're able to provide.
Well, I haven't, it's late,
but is the possibility of opening Larky
more than just during the summer part of this mix,
or should it be?
You're getting a nod.
Yeah.
It exists.
We don't have to build it, we'd have to pay to operate it.
Yeah.
So those are the kind of things I want people to,
which is an additional expense.
Yeah, there's additional expense, and we know,
but we also heard how important aquatics is.
I think all of our kids went through it.
It's an important part of community safety.
Important part of community safety.
Because we are well-served by our kids
having something to do besides this.
And I'm willing to put some time and energy into that.
You want me to take a stab at this?
Yes please.
So what I heard very clearly is to meet
with the aquatics folks to review the new information
they provided related to the schedule,
compare that with our schedule that was produced
to see if we can reconcile.
And even if we can't reconcile to understand
the different interpretations that exist
to really understand what those differences are.
Obviously, if we can work through those
within the existing design, we would do that.
I frankly think that's highly unlikely
based upon what we've heard that that would occur.
But we will work that through to understand
what the differences are, what the assumption sets are,
see if we can get to some type of resolution.
The pending question in my mind is if we can't resolve it.
and that not all of the programs as they exist now
can be accommodated exactly as they are now
in the new design.
What's a little unclear to me is how much latitude
do we have to discuss options
without setting an expectation
that those options would be supported?
What I'm generally hearing,
while I'm not hearing there's clear direction on this,
and that's okay, but there's not much support
an all-deep pool is what I'm hearing at this point.
And so, I don't think we would engage in discussions about programming that assume an all-deep
pool would occur.
I think we would assume at this point for discussions about the schedule that it would
be the various depth pool that's been discussed.
And if we can't accommodate everything, then that would be a future discussion for your
council and decision about whether you'd want to entertain all-deep or not.
Let me try to see if I can help you in getting the understanding.
I think I have not heard broad support for a tweak that is 10 million, but if it was
in the discussions, if there is something that is at a lower number, we would want to
know what that option is.
I think we're rejecting four to six.
lapse. That's why I'm going with 10 and 1. I think you stretched the envelope quite quickly.
Yes. So, yeah, remember we've got those big pension liabilities. I know. You know, there's,
yes. But if there is a stretch that's 1 to 2 million, do we want to hear about it? I want
to hear about the options. If it's 1 to 2, if it's 3 to 5, I think we need to evaluate that.
And I'm not prepared to vote on anything right now, even direction of one that's not deep
water because I think that's just going to poison the conversation moving forward.
I think that we have to vote on the whole ball of wax when we are prepared to vote on
the whole ball of wax.
I like the idea of having options too and knowing how much they cost and understanding
where we're apart, how it could be reconciled, and what the various different options are
for doing that and how much they cost. So some of the things that we, some of the
alternatives to funding all of this were things like the economics of TOT and big
meets, the importance of revenues to teams on these big meets. I don't want to
be sitting here listening to the same arguments of how the solution could be
derived unless we kind of put a little guard rails on this because we're gonna be here for two years.
If and if I could construe that I think what what we're saying is that we need some confirmation
from the aquatics foundation that they would live up to the MOU if we were to consider these other
alternatives and look at other options to accommodate the teams. I mean that that's
got to be part of the deal otherwise we're spending more money and and the aquatics foundation
No wait, that's what you said, you gotta be, okay.
You haven't raised it.
Let me address that for a second.
It was my understanding, and maybe it was my naivete,
but it was my understanding that the MOU
was because we were supporting a 50 meter pool.
And that I really do expect the Aquatics Foundation
to be fully supportive and stand up
to the obligation of the $3 million.
We're sitting here because of that.
Frankly, we wouldn't be sitting here if it weren't for that.
And I would like to see,
I'm gonna put a little pressure on you now,
I'd like to see the Aquatics Foundation say,
I see the council's having some real concerns
about a couple of extra million dollars,
we're gonna come up with that.
And then we're gonna get that pool
that we are really desiring for.
I'm not asking you to nod or shake your head right now,
just saying that's what I would like to see
is a good faith effort.
But I fully do expect a three million dollar fundraising
to be adhered to.
That is why we are sitting here, having the conversation.
1245.
So.
And just in terms of the Foundation and the MOU,
it's based on the three anchor teams, right?
The teams that are there.
And so it's not based on water polo.
And so in terms of the Foundation,
of course, we want to live up to the MOU.
And what we're really looking for
is for the city to meet us there
in terms of making sure our programming
for these three teams can continue
and the programming for the other aquatic groups that use it.
Like the lap swimmers and the water walkers
and the lessons, we support that and so we want that.
So Water Polo is, that's a separate organization coming in
And so that's a separate concern and they would,
they're really, they need the all deep for their ability
in terms of their programming more.
In terms of, you know, the swim teams that are there now,
the main thing is really to be able to make sure
you still have enough training space.
And so that's where the issue about having enough
swimmable water comes in.
So making sure that we have the lanes and the space
to get all that training.
Yes, it would be nice to have, you know,
to be able to host the bigger meets.
That would be nice, but it sounds like that's not,
you know, that might not be in the cards.
But in order to survive,
you have to have enough space to train.
And I think that's what all of the coaches
were saying tonight.
You have to be able to, you know, have that space.
And so when we looked at the conceptual schedule,
just taking the conceptual schedule that we were given,
what we saw is every afternoon,
the practice times for the aqua bears,
they lost three actual lanes,
and then they were also allocated more narrow lanes.
And so that meant fewer swimmers.
And same thing for their Saturday morning practice.
Both aqua bears and masters were allocated fewer lanes
because we have the aqua nuts in.
So I think the main objective would be to ensure
that you have, of course, the 50-meter pool,
and that you have a little bit of extra,
some other lanes in that recreational pool
to take that spillover.
So those are the main, main things.
The deep water would help with cost recovery.
That was what we were thinking,
because we heard that a lot, right?
You hear the talk about lessons,
and things like that.
So I think those are the main, is that an accurate?
Yes.
So if there's a way, you know, maybe an,
if you can't dig, you know, to add four lanes,
maybe there's something that could change
in the recreational element just a little bit,
like maybe the current channel.
Maybe that, I don't know how many lanes that would be.
Yeah.
Everything's about the other guy.
Yeah, it's one of these things.
I think we all share the common interest
and we want to have, everybody supports the recreation,
everybody supports the training schedule
for the three existing tenants.
And I think at 10 minutes to one,
that's about all we're going to be able to do tonight.
I'm hitting the button.
If staff is comfortable enough with that,
That is the standard, which is.
Can I try to stand tonight?
Yes, of course.
My last meeting, can I just sort of help maybe move this along?
Because this has gone on for 15 years,
and you can tell from the discussion
it's not going to change.
The only thing it'll change is adding a bigger facility.
That's the only way we're going to meet
what we're going to have here.
That is the only way.
We can talk about looking at the schedule and everything else.
And whether or not we take that away
from the recreation, which is what
has been suggested continuously by this group,
is eliminate recreation and give us more water.
And that's where this is gonna go back and forth,
back and forth.
So in order to, and Dan said this from the very beginning,
we decided to make two pools.
We're not gonna be able to accommodate everything.
It's not gonna happen.
We're not gonna be able to meet everyone's schedule
with what we're showing here now.
And that's just, I'm just being clearly blunt
with everybody.
So if we think we're gonna go back here
and we can go through these papers and come up with something
without spending another four or five million dollars,
It's not gonna happen.
We can go do that and come back to you with a plan
that shows what it takes to meet what they want.
It's gonna be another four to five million dollars.
There's no other way to do it.
We only have so much room to work with.
So I just wanna kinda set that up.
I can understand if I was you,
I'd wanna see what that looked like and we can go do that.
But that's kinda where we're at.
So I know it's late, I just thought I need to have that.
My two cents worth of that, okay?
Setting expectations is always good.
Thank you.
Steve, just to clarify that,
I mean because we do have an MOU with them
that says we're gonna meet their existing programming.
So I.
We're gonna meet the programs
and not the exact schedule is what they had before.
That's very clear, that's maybe a little bit of thing
but that's exactly, we can meet every program.
Everyone's gonna still be able to swim.
Everybody can still swim.
So what can't we meet then?
That's hours that they want.
Yeah, hours.
And to do that you'd have to add four lanes essentially.
Or more, I don't know what that looks like yet.
Or the trade-off comes at less recreation.
So, I mean, Steve's talking about all the programming.
He's talking not only about the request from the three teams,
but also the recreation non-competitive needs as well.
So, unless the pool is made bigger is what Steve stated,
there's somewhat of a net-sum game there.
So, direction I'm hearing right now is we can have this
discussion, we'll work through, we will understand what the
different schedules are.
We can come back with some options, but I do want to
clarify as well with Steve, I don't think there's a miracle
here that we're gonna find in the schedule that solves everything. But we
will work seek to understand what the different assumptions are about why
there's this disconnect between the city thinking there was a schedule that
pretty much gets us there versus a team thinking the schedule isn't close to
getting us there and hopefully we can bridge that better at least as a
starting point. Apologies. I heard councilmember Silva ask the question about
guardrails. If staff is provided with guardrails and I'm hearing some
recognition the part of the Aquatic Foundation that maybe if all deep pool
isn't in the cards. I hear that there's perhaps less interest on some council
members to vote on this but I'm hearing three possible no all deep pool. If that
guardrail were provided to staff in the community that would help set a
parameter for all of us that we would know okay here's the environment that we
can work with relating to the schedule and here's where we're not an all deep
pool and so if it's not all deep pool this becomes easier if the all deep pool
and this gets to something that councilmember Francois said earlier why are
we building an all deep pool is it to allow for meets that are not currently
happening that would enhance revenue for the teams if that's the rationale for it
then I think we can say, no, we're not gonna go there.
But if it's, and I don't know,
and I have stretched as far as I can
on understanding seven versus eight
and long course and short course,
if there is another rationale that gets us there,
I wanna know what that is.
So maybe the real issue is address the training issue,
the conflicts of schedules.
there will not be a conflict of schedule in the pool if it's a big meet.
Yeah.
That's given.
You kind of have to establish it.
See if you can address the conflict of competing time and space because it's just different.
Does that help, Kevin?
At one in the morning.
So let me set the expectation.
You haven't proven to any of us that an all-deep pool addresses the space issue, the space
and the conflict of time.
So that's why we're here, why we're here.
I'm prepared to second that, because I asked the question, I didn't hear that it didn't
address the space issue.
It was a revenue-generating mechanism.
Maybe there's other explanations that, and it also doesn't address the aqua nuts and
the long course conflict.
it could be deep, it could be shallow, it could be six inches, but so I'm prepared
to support what you said. That's two. Do we have, I am prepared to as well, so. But
I'm not, I'm also not shutting the door. If there's some other explanation that
hasn't been provided, yeah. No, it's got to be based in fact and reality and, yeah.
Yeah and and and time is of the essence and and and I cannot yeah yeah so so the
time is of the essence we really do need to to make a decision and and live with
everybody that's mad at us and and be grateful that maybe half the community
still likes us but I don't think we're gonna resolve it tonight are we
I'm gonna take one more crack at summarizing cuz I want to be clear cuz I do not want to have this same discussion coming back
Okay
We're gonna review the schedule that the aquatics foundation came up with with the schedule that staff came up with to understand where the different
Perspectives are coming from and why there's such a gap in terms of what can be accommodated
Beyond that we are going to focus on the training needs of the teams and not focus on what would be needed
to support new revenue generating events yes all right it seems that we have as close
to a conclusion of this as we can possibly reach this late time in the day so early time
in the day so this meeting is adjourned and we will see you again next time we have one