I'm wondering if that's how you all around.
percentage.
I think.
But.
I did need to see. You kind of seen the light that's in you. Did you see that? That's what you want. I'm going to make it better. So hello to the panelists.
I think the traffic didn't work. So I would have restored it. It is in Jerry's right now there. Yeah. The right one.
The beginning of the end, or the end of the beginning.
We're seeing it.
So now that I have a very good idea.
I'm fine.
I'm going to get some.
See.
Getting at the end of the end of the year.
Really.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Any things.
That's good.
Because it's done.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So let's say.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think I can get one.
We're probably going to be going to.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I think we asked. Yes, it's been like, really nice. I'm on the. It's very low. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I have a slide that we have to cut to the 730, 730. Yes. But man, we can't do any retracts. Yeah.
I just want to know,
Chris, what are you doing with all of that?
She said she'd be good again.
She'll be good again.
Not a matter of saying it.
She says it makes sense.
Yeah, no big deal.
You've been actually talking.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
No, it's good.
You've got your own.
Okay, I want to note for the record that all Council members are present.
The next one is the adoption agenda and we have decided to open meeting the staff doesn't have any changes to the adoption agenda.
We adopt the agenda. Do I have a second?
I don't see what is the study session for tonight's meeting. Thank you all for making it fine.
I know it wasn't terribly convenient for most folks, but we wanted to, based on the direction
that the council provided at our last discussion on Ivy Drive, is to set aside time in a more,
a less formal environment to have more of a discussion around the proposal that staff
made, recommendation staff made regarding Ivy Drive, and related improvements along
on Morawah Way and around school sites.
You asked us to come back to some additional information.
I don't wanna steal a lot of seeing the thunder,
Ryan's thunder, so I'll turn it over to the public works team
who can walk you through it again today.
Tonight's meeting is not a decision-making night.
This is really about trying to provide you additional data
through your request, answer your questions
and give us some direction as to what you like
to see happening next.
So I'm gonna turn it over to Siva and Ryan
and Scott to join me for the chat.
I will turn right over to our city engineer.
Thank you.
Well, the city manager covered everything I wanted to say.
So we did put a brief presentation together
to give you a little background
and also talk about some of the recent things
that we have done since the last time
we got this in one of those talks.
With that I'll hand it over to Ryan
and he can give us a double representation.
Just for everybody's benefit,
There's no amplified sound in this room
and it's not the most acoustically.
There's some issues with this.
So if you can just talk loudly,
that would be really helpful for the people
that are viewing online and for the third.
Great, thank you all for coming.
The same Council Workshop.
They're there to try to sign that runway
and try to intersection.
Like Steve said, I'm just gonna do kind of a quick summary.
similar to what we heard back in July.
And then also if you have data that turn into today.
So, no?
Yeah, you just have to scroll.
All right, exactly.
Right now?
Yeah, okay.
So in 1999, the city like the study review,
the property chairman of the Ivy Drive neighborhood
is in the south of Oringa.
And then the study was performed by Farrah Peers.
And they found that the traffic issues
were caused by three major factors,
speeding by a neighborhood residence,
drop off and pick up traffic at a rent-a-intervention school
and then traffic to near Monty High School
that was utilizing the having to drive
the bypass confession on Ragged Bay Area.
This study also took feedback from the residents,
and appropriate for traffic in the neighborhood.
Ryan, I meant that you guys speak up.
There's not much noise.
So, based on the study and direction of the city council,
several members granted a moment.
He's included in the restriping and driving drive,
maybe the center lines at that time.
And then they installed stop signs at three intersections,
on Arctic Drive, Coral Drive and always stop control
at Eastwood Drive and Coral Drive
and also always stop control at Arctic Drive.
At that time, the study did not recommend measures
such as their left turn restrictions
that was reduced volumes on Ivy Drive
because it would have increased volumes on Jason Street
such as Coral Drive and also divert traffic
onto other streets.
So in 2002, actually, sorry, in 2000,
at a city council meeting,
they revisited the Ivy Drive traffic calming
at the request of residents.
We were informed of the traffic,
traffic blocking committee in the inner field.
So they discussed installing
additional traffic calming measures
as a temporary solution.
And those included reconfiguring the crosswalk
at south and wrong way in Ivy Drive.
And it comes down to the question,
they painted curbs red on Ivy Drive and wrong way south.
They also installed stop signs at Ivy Drive and Coral,
and Ivy Drive and Eastwood,
and they painted curd at Ivy Drive,
where they were both gone for the sight distance.
And then for a trial period,
They installed no left turn sign at Ivy Drive Road
and it was supposed to restrict traffic
from 7 a.m. to 8 a.m. Monday through Friday,
just during the school year.
The trial was only gonna be six months
and ended up lasting two years.
And so in 2002,
they came back to present the findings
and were having to be implemented.
And they found that digital return sign was effective
and they recommended keeping the sign,
but they weren't actually able to quantify
the exact reduction in traffic.
They had heard some complaints on Pearl Drive
for additional traffic,
but it was difficult to quantify that number.
And then at that meeting in April 2002,
City Council approved permanent escalation of signs
through the school year, taking them in summer.
So in 2012,
it came back that they wanted to install additional signs
on South Wayport, and then also at White Poulter Drive.
And that would also be from Southern A&M to A&M
because I think they found that people were taking lifts
or using them for returns that then bypassed
when we left North Lake.
So this is what it looks like since 2012
and what it still looks like today.
And like I said, they're just for the school year.
So then in 2017, at TSAC meeting,
it was at a request from the chair at the time,
Chair Roberts, he wanted to consider adjusting the hours
of the new left turn sign on Broadway on the drive
because Miramonti changed their start time from 8 AM
to 8 30 on Monday, Wednesday, and Fridays.
They discussed changing it to later,
the no less restriction to bigger than 8 AM,
but then they felt that it would negatively impact
those traveling along the S,
because that starts at eight below five.
And then it wouldn't align well
with the earlier start time, if it earlier is as well.
So TSAC did not move forward,
with recommended changes to attending.
Then in 2023, it was brought up by OIS school staff
to reevaluate the need of the no return signs
and all the way toine drive north
because they felt that it was no longer serving
its intended purpose of preventing turns
from suddenly eight a.m.
There was a new California SB 328 approved in 2019
that said that high schools have to start at 8.30 or later.
So that meant that the new year and mountain high school
start time is now 8.30, starting in the 2022
to include a school year.
So that meant that there was more traffic
on Moragawa after 8 a.m.
Which firstly affected my staff and students,
especially for the zero period, started 7.50.
And it required them to take alternate routes
And then also just increased traffic after 8am on Cardiff for traffic bypassing.
So to start times, as they are now, Delray Elementary School, which is also nearby, starts at 8am.
OAS starts at 8.45 with a zero period at 7.50. And then Miriam-Bakti starts at 8.30.
So two separate.
Let's see when it was brought to the site, it was then to set directly staff to look into removing the no left turn sign.
We did a public outreach on October 25 23 not to well seven people.
Like in the neighborhood and the schools, it was pretty well attended about 90 people.
And then after that outreach, the staff recommended that traffic
informed and then that traffic study was conducted in May of the fall.
We hired our traffic consultant, AMG,
to do the study or school session.
It was towards the end of the year, but school was still in session.
And they were evaluating the existing traffic patterns on Ivy Drive,
artist drive so look at recommendations to ensure cut route traffic and improve safety
conditions in the idler neighborhoods. So they recommended that the left turn sign be removed
at iDrive North, change the times at Southwaite and at Whitehall to be from 730 to 830 and then
and then also install a new, no right turn sign,
that prohibited no right turn sign,
an artist's drive from 730 to 830.
And then we'll get a lot of fines
and sign up at the oral garage
and I've addressed on some driveway.
So it would look more like this.
So the report was presented to the TSAC.
So instead of making recommendations to council,
they decided we needed to go back on the time,
do a meeting, which we did in August, April 16th, 2005.
And then the response was kind of mixed,
but it did seem like some sort of modifications
to decide was maybe overall enough and so forth.
So then we took back to TSAC and then in May,
they recommended going to city council with these findings.
And it was presented to city council on July 15th,
2025, we're after going through a lot of misinformation.
City council wanted staff to go back
to get additional information before an additional study.
So part of that was looking at addressing,
you know, gathering additional data.
They wanted to make sure that data was taken
to your school week, kind of in the middle of the year.
And then also looking at improving truck circulation
along the arrival way.
And because we also got feedback from the community
about adding an always stop sign,
have a coral drive and artist drive.
And then look at overall pedestrian safety
on coral drives and then,
because Delray's right there too,
with it for the circulation and safety concerns around the study.
So I'm going to have Joy come up and run through what
he's done in this edition.
Good evening, everyone.
Thank you, Ryan.
John Betacaria with Advanced Enability Group.
And we were selected to do the study in 24,
and then the supplemental study that we did in 2025.
But the main purpose for this supplemental study
was to look at the circulation as a whole in that area.
So we did a different way of data collection,
which is for the LPR.
And we talk about it for license plate matching.
Whereas the previous study was done based on street light
data, which is basically big data,
group data that is gathered from cell phones, and cars,
and things like that.
So there is two different approaches.
So we did it in both different ways.
And the conclusion was very similar or almost the same.
So the overall purpose was to better understand
the human power circulation
and the neighborhood puppy behavior in that area,
like Ivy Drive and Moraga Way.
And the focus was also to look at the agenda
in the GX school,
their starting time and how traffic coming from Moraga Way
as we get to the driveway of 49WBS.
So those were the main things that we looked at.
So this is just an idea of what kind of data was collected.
So as you can see, the supplemental data was collected
on September 9th, 2025.
And the study period was taken to be the AMT
when most of the issues happened in this corridor.
And it was done between 7 a.m. and 9 a.m.
on a regular weekday.
So that's supposed to be the typical peak hour
during the A and B period.
So we collected data at that time.
And in this study, the new data was collected
using the license plate recognition matching.
So what we did is we had video cameras for a person
who were standing at those data collection points
and they were noting the license plate number
of the cars that are passing through that roadway.
And then it was matched in the exit location.
And if it matched on both locations,
that means the car is actually cutting through the neighborhood.
And if there is no match, that means
they are either going to the school
or going somewhere in the neighborhood
and not cutting through the neighborhood,
like intentionally to enter the neighborhood
and be around there.
And we also collected turning movement out,
which is basically the left turn, right turn,
and the through movement on each approach
for the intersections along Mora Highway.
And the purpose of that was to see how we can improve traffic
flow on Muraga Way that would reduce delay,
such that people don't need to cut through and use
IV Drive as a country or ARD Drive as a country.
So overall, based on the columns that we collected,
so we are showing it at the three different locations,
which is the in and out location from the neighborhood.
So one is your IV Drive North, then
choral drive and the IP drive south.
So those are the locations which are the main entrance
and exit from the neighborhood.
And we see that there were 620 cars
that bent into the neighborhood.
And there were 772 cars that came out of the neighborhood.
So which basically tells us that there are trips
that are getting generated, that people living there
are the trips that gets generated
and they come out of the neighborhood
without coming into the neighborhood.
So that was our overall conclusion
approximately around 150 cars are generated during that two-hour period during the AMD
that gets generated for the river, then it kind of matches with the number of houses that we see
in the zinger. And so the original study, as I mentioned, looked at the streetlight data,
which is basically data collected from cell phones and cars by do-dos, that tells us where the car is
originating from and where the destination is going to be. And based on that, we calculated
what percentage of the traits were cut through traits that was either using IV drive or RD drive.
So that was the initial method. And later we were asked to look into the real scenario,
like not based upon probe data and data that is available online thing, but to do it in the field.
and that is when we changed the methodology of collecting the data and we observed it in
and looked at the actual license plate numbers and matched them up such that we can be sure that
they are actually matching up when they are cutting through. So based on this study result which
basically we did almost the same percentage of cut-through that we're going through the
neighborhood, we found that the key findings out here is that 415 vehicles enter Ivy Drive,
making the left turn from Moradawi and that left turn, 54% are captured traffic, so 54%
entered from there and then touched through either a hard drive or to Moradawi South.
Oh sorry, Ivy Drive South, back into Moradawi and we also observed that 97
cars actually made that left turn during the restricted uh no left turn period that is between
7 and 8 am where left turn is restricted but even then 97 cars were making the left turn
to either access or to cut through right so and out of those 97 cars we found that 66 percent
of those cars were actually uh cutting through and after restriction ends there are 380 vehicles
that turn left and out of them 50% was determined to be customer drive going through IV drive.
So those are the those are the numbers that we found based on our origin destination study
and then we also looked at Moraga way delay and based on signal coordination which basically means
that each signal talks to each other and changes the green time with an offset such that cars don't
have to stop at each and every signal. So we did that analysis and we found that currently
like the relay basically to go from Muragawa from north IG to south IG it takes approximately 3.5
minutes which can be reduced to three minutes per vehicle if the coordination has come properly
for the signalized intersection along Muragawa. So based on that our recommendations we put it
as recommendations for each and every intersection along the border within our study area. So this
kind of shows the recommendation. Our main recommendation is to remove the left-hand side
on Muraga Way and I'll be trying more. So that's the first recommendation. There are also the
no left-hand side at South Way and El Camino Muraga. So we said we need to keep those left-hand side and
And the primary reason is that they don't have a left on link.
So if there is somebody who is trying to make a left on,
drops the entire traffic going southbound,
and that increases the delay.
So it's better to restrict those left on and keep the sign,
but change it from 7.30 to 8.30 instead of 7.8
because that is the time that the actual cut
through is happening, and also time the signals properly
such that the coordination happens around morale away.
So based on these improvements, it's
going to overall improve the flow of Moraga way,
and that will reduce the necessity
to cut through IV drive or any other street for that matter.
The other recommendation that we have out here
is at IV and verdict, there is some cut-through that happens.
So people are making the left turn,
and then again making the right turn on audit.
And it increases when OIC is in session,
or people are approaching it because Muraga,
IV drug get congested too.
So then people come to party and comes out for form.
So that's the overall recommendations
that we are recommending as part of the study.
And in addition to that, there are some suggestions
as to what should be done after
it's the recommendation that we can take.
One of the key elements for that is how to monitor
and look at after taking designs away,
how the traffic pattern changes
and if it's the part through going up
or going down and things like that.
So that is one of the recommendation is to look at that
and collect speed data on our data.
We were an engineering and traffic survey,
which is basically to set the speed limit at that location.
So any speed limit that needs to be changed,
you have to do engineering and traffic survey,
you have to compute that,
within high visibility crosswalk markings
And the pedestrians can be seen better.
And the cross-walk rotation can be seen better by the drivers.
And then we also recommend that maybe Moraga Way and Ivy Drive LPI
should be considered.
LPI is a leading pedestrian intern.
So typically, we observe that the southbound right turn
at that location has conflict with the pedestrians crossing
the crosswalk on the west side.
And that can be eliminated by putting in LPI
where the pedestrians get the walk sign
five to six seconds earlier than the cars
get the green light, right?
So then the pedestrian becomes more visible
to the drivers that are making the right turn.
So that way we can make it into a much safer location,
but that is not yet, like it's just a suggestion,
also it is something that can be considered as part of.
dark. If that can help build up the value.
So, we also performed two other studies related to overall
tribe and ufest from Citi. We did a stock board analysis at
Coral Drive and Ardeth Drive in court and the study went through
And it found that it did not pass for mandatory warrants which are related to traffic counts, collision history, restricted site distance, let's say the corners, and then also does it improve the overall intersection, but it did pass the optional warrant for site distance because it's at the top of the hill here, so being able to see in both directions can be difficult.
So with that, they did recommend putting in an all-way stop controller at the center section, and it would include doing stop signs, putting in stop ahead signs from Coral.
And then moving this stop bar from Ardith back approximately 10 feet to allow space for pedestrians to cross.
That seems to cross and then also looking at implementing additional tracking changes on coral from our death down to the right way.
Such as edge lines to narrow the roadway possibly center. And so, while there is no sidewalk here at the moment, it would provide some space for them to walk down
And then it also narrows up the lanes so that it can slow the others down.
So, as a future project, as part of the Rindel, the Rindel bicycle trails walkway to master
plan, it was adopted in 2011.
One of the projects was to do a sidewalk on Coral Drive all the way from Ivy Drive to
The next CIP project cycle to try to find funding for that and then the last study we did was a circulation study
continue. But we want to look at recommending this the next CIP project cycle to try to
find funding for that person. And then the last study we did was a circulation study
at Delray Elementary. And we had gotten feedback from parents that it was difficult to come
out of the exit at Del Rey and the partial parking lot on the east side of the roadway.
There's currently no parking lot on the west side, but that's where cars queue up to pick up
the children to come in to Del Rey and out. And so what they're recommending is adding some
red curve and parking signs as the exit on both sides of the exit so that cars can just see
see better as they exit out, and also of course sometimes park on the sidewalk upstairs so
we'll allow better access to the entrance. So then see who is going to grab this address.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Find that graphic points.
Okay.
Everybody's thought up on every day.
But I wanted to bring this graphic mainly to, and I take a step back.
And we've had a lot of stuff right now to hopefully try to capture all the things here.
So number one in this graphic is the primary location that said that no left turn to IV is present correctly.
That's an original request came in. Initially when we looked at it, we wanted to approach as a simple traffic sign request and wanted to see where this originated and that took us to a very long history of all the stuff.
all the stuff, the drying cover of how this all started.
So we did the outreach and from that,
based on the feedback we gathered,
it became very clear that we needed to do
a lot more research into it.
So that's when we created the study
and wanted to see why that sign is
and how is it really behaving.
The initial study gave us just enough information
to show that, yes, there is control traffic likely,
but because of the change in the school timings,
the science effectiveness has gone down.
Let's put it that way.
It's not completely obsolete.
It's just not as effective as it was 20 years
from the point we were looking on.
So we felt like, okay, that makes sense for the sign,
but there are other left turn restrictions
along Moraga Way in the neighborhood.
And we had got really good feedback from the neighborhood
about what's happening on a highway
which was not even in the area.
So we started looking into that a little bit closer
and the study kind of validated that.
So that's when the initial recommendations came in saying,
it's better to consider removal of the sign at number one.
And then maybe add another sign at where the blue line
is starting off of the magenta by IV driving section,
restricting people from getting on to an ordered drive
because IV drive is not actually beneficial for them.
It's not motivating them to go through there
because there are speed bumps,
there's restricted striping movement,
and of course over extractive there's using that over ahead.
So that's where the original recommendations came,
but then we presented the information,
it became obvious that the data collector,
timing of the data collection,
and the type of data collection was not satisfactory.
So like John mentioned today,
we went into a really hands-on data collection.
But while we did that, between this time,
as you can see, it started in 2023 and period in 2028.
So more information came to, came in front of us.
So we started to take a little wider,
broader look at this whole thing.
That's where there was a two and three
and all these two points below 10.
So on Muraga Bay also started to coming to a focus.
So what we did is in addition to the camera things
that Joy explained, we also took homes along the way.
The goal being what's happening overall circulation wise,
why are people actually thinking IB drivers
of the official movement to go into Miramonde,
that's the concern we're trying to find.
The few things that stood out for us
is the incentive of being on coral or on ivy,
the dream light that's allowing them to either get back
on Murangave or to go into Murangave
is actually preferred equally
as those folks who are on Murangave are.
So what that means is if a tour recast come up on ivy drive
location, the signal is turning green for. As soon as that, that's also creating a
conflicting movement on Moraga because it's backing things up. Of course, when
somebody is on, I believe, seeing all that, they want to jump on it. The
second component that we noticed that came up is that's one of the reasons
Delray comes into the picture because there is a left-hand movement that's going on
to Delray at 8 o'clock time which is actually a priority movement because
there is not enough space to bank those cars. So as soon as two or three cars come
we have to open that out, which also backs up Moraga on that aspect.
Taking all this into consideration, what we benefit is the overall recognition.
That's why the recommendation is not stopping and just removing the sign.
It wants to take away that incentive for people to take IV drive back to the road.
The hope being, if we do that and create more circulation along Moraga way, over time it
will create the behavior pattern to stay on Moraga.
The second government is, as you all saw,
the sign is really not doing its job as we expect.
97 people cut through the sign while it was in effect.
That means they are making an illegal turn.
That means they're in a hurry to get through there.
That itself is the safety concern for them.
Alternative component to it is currently
we're asking them to take coral drag as an alternate
to IV directions for folks who need to go into OIS.
but from a frame how the roadway is set up,
Coronavirus is a much more restricted roadway
compared to Ivy Drive.
But it doesn't have enough striping
that it's parking on both sides of the street
and it's a much more heavier terrain than Ivy Drive.
So once you have the initial income on Ivy,
and also like I said before,
Ivy Drive has a lot like the signage improvements,
feet cushions, all those two combat code here.
So for us from an engineering standpoint,
that is a safety concern
because you're encouraging traffic to take a street
that's not quite designed to accommodate
a kind of traffic against the street
that's actually a designated school street
was designed to unmute school traffic
with current restriction.
And I'll add on top of it all the feedback we got
from the various books about the early school period
and the planning changes.
So as you can see, there is multiple factors
that went into it.
I hope we did a thorough job of like looking
at all the aspects of it
And that's the reason you're seeing so many different
recommendations, but in the simplest sense,
all it is is we move the IV, left turn at IV,
add a new right turn at that magenta slash blue
and the section, and then make some improvement
on coral drive because we have observed
significant pedestrian traffic along coral drive
that's going both ways, towards OAS
and also coming towards Mira Mountain.
So they can access the walkway that's all along
or other ways, so we did observe that.
And that's sort of the stop sign study data recommendation.
That's kind of the gist of it.
And we wanted to open it up for questions after that.
And there you go.
Thank you.
Just because this isn't our typical big meeting formality,
in terms of format, we do have a little more time tonight.
So I'd like to start with council questions for staff
and then we'll have formal public comment
For even it's a person, but I might leave it before I close the public hearing to have it be a little bit of a dialogue where people from the audience can raise their hands if they, there's something they want to try back in and then I will probably be and close it to public comment.
So we can get a little bit more specific direction. So to the extent we can keep it a little bit more back and forth tonight. I would like to try that. But the first thing I will do is just questions from us to staff before we do public comment.
and I'll ask if anybody has questions.
I'm sure there are people.
I'm sure if you didn't, that's fine.
Vice Mayor Deak.
All right, the first question I have,
and I'm looking right at him
because I appreciate everything he does in our community,
but I would love to see if we could have some feedback
from our police chief as to enforcement information,
given that clearly we have limited resources
or police enforcement of any traffic
and that's gonna continue.
I bet I'd be very interested in knowing
anything you can share with how often these intersections
have enforcement, where there are 400 citations
given last year for people breaking one of them,
where there are 20.
If you can just give us some sense of it,
it would be very good.
Yeah, I don't have that statistical data right on hand. I can get that working to answer
that question as far as statistics of how much enforcement. As far as direct enforcement,
it's been, as you guys know, our main goal is the school safety. So our main goal is
right now the officers in the morning traffic times are posted at all the different elementary
schools on a rotation. So we have at least officers have two schools every
morning that they go to. So I'll hit two school areas and make sure traffic's
moving well. The kids are safely getting across the street. All of that kind of
congestion is controlled because of us being there. So we don't get to do
really direct enforcement unless something is blatantly like that's been
seen. 97 people make that turn. I've seen it. Everybody does it. So unless
work specifically right there to deal with it then we do address it. Outside of those school like
morning times if we do see it there's not like a direct enforcement. We don't like have it up on
a chalkboard saying hey we're going to work this area unless we have community coming out saying
hey we're starting to see this you're starting to see increased traffic speeding stop signs violations
that will address it. And those are what we address it, it seems to solve the issue and then
we go back to normal procedures. So that's the best answer I can give you for as far as how we
look at it as main goal is dealing with the school safety for all of our elementary schools
and the middle school and the high school. The secondary is worrying about the traffic
violations that we get during that time. So I personally feel our presence is better
place at the schools. I think the all the principals superintendent would agree having
an officer seen at the schools is much more important than I think to all our community
as opposed to doing the traffic enforcement and if we can do that then we will address.
Okay thank you. I have another question and I think it's probably fair to break it.
Hello everyone. Yeah I just had one more related one but which was really I saw
our fabulous superintendent here. In addition to our police chief, if there's anything else
they wanted to add to the staff presentation, I thought it would be helpful for us to hear it
now. I appreciate it. I actually believe that our superintendent who is here in the audience,
but has a tight schedule. So if you do have anything that you'd like to share with us,
I know you might not be able to stay until we have the formal public comment. I'm saying that
because I know we've gotten some comments from teachers and, you know, about, not too
much on the spot, it was more to provide an opportunity for people to take you.
I know when I cut out it's because I have another meeting.
Thank you.
I want to leave.
Can you step up just because we're running on Sam so that you can use the mic.
We are going to put you on the spot, I appreciate it.
I don't have a formal comment. I appreciate the thoroughness of the study.
I thought that was really well done. So thank you. I think what I would add is,
Yes, we appreciate the police presence at the start of the school at the elementary school,
as opposed to the enforcement. I think what I appreciate the most is also around the ORIS,
when I understand the community it puts them just getting through the school,
there, we have a lot of students not riding bikes and walking to schools, especially to Del Ray,
and then I know we're running high school, also has students driving their bikes,
walking to school, out of that neighborhood, and our school's electricity starts at 8 am.
And there's a quite a contingency of students walking along that path.
Horrible way, it's right there. And so by not allowing that left-hand turn on Ivy,
we're actually pushing the traffic in that direction, in horrible way, into the area where
there isn't a wide road where there isn't all the speed bumps
and where most of our foot traffic is.
Students are not walking on Ivy Road on top.
They're not actually going to school and walking that way.
They're all going down towards New Romani and towards Delray.
So we're actually pushing all the traffic
in their direction where the pedestrians are.
So I appreciate the proposal and my perspective
to address that situation.
And we're not half of the chorus book that way.
Thank you for your input.
I didn't want to pitch out the spot.
I knew you were just here for a minute.
Yes, please.
May I ask you a question?
Sure.
I'm curious how many students fall into the,
or attend the zero period at OIS.
I thought of course it was jazz.
It was jazz.
I think classes only offered.
Oh I thought four,
and some of them are teachers write up.
Math, jazz.
We have two formal classes,
That's Jazz, which is less than 20 students.
And then we have a PE class that's offered zero period.
So that's less than 40.
So no more than 40 students.
It's used to be staffed around 28 students.
I think it's actually not, it's around 35 kids right now.
Okay.
So that's no more than, I think it's less than 60 students.
That's maxed out.
And then there's some clubs that meet in the morning,
but those are not formal classes
and they meet up in their math club, I wanna say,
and that's sometimes of the year on certain days.
Okay, for those two, first those are the two formal classes.
When you say zero period, those are it.
Every day. Yeah, correct.
Is there anything else that we have
our school superintendent as our guest doing in person?
Thank you.
Thank you for coming.
Now, can I ask her one more question?
Please, please.
I'm struggling to remember exactly when you changed the start time to 845, because it
used to be what, 830?
It's been a long time at OIS, well before my being in Oranda anywhere, any of the levels
in Oranda.
I think it's really Miermani that changed.
Well yeah, we understand the state mandates that changed the timing at Miermani.
I was curious given some of the input that people have provided or whatever, whether
there's ever been any discussion or about changing the start time again at
OIS? We have a scheduling committee that's examining times at elementary
schools and at OIS. We're looking at that. The issue is that if we change the times,
we have to keep them staggered or we're going to not function on the streets. So right now from
elementary starting at eight, and have them are also staggered schedule, right, or the leg starts.
And then with your money starting at eight 30 and us at 845, it actually provides the flow of traffic
and allows eight routes of buses to drop off all elementary schools and then come to the OIS
students. We don't allow that transition time. We would not be able to have that little routes of
a busing or have a stagger. So whatever we do in the change, we have to stagger in between
elementary, middle school, and law for the high school. So I don't see the change in
8-4-9-star time happening. If there's any playtime, it would be at the end of the day.
We don't think you could go 10 minutes later.
Ten minutes later, like before or five instead of 8-4-5. I think that was really hard because
of when we push the end time and that's part of the actually what started the scheduling
for me is our end time is probably one of the latest end times out of any of the schools.
Our students are those that are taking the bus for example, going to Sleepy Hollow area.
They're not getting off the bus a lot of the time.
Yeah.
For, I think you already answered this, Adele, Delray and Gloria and Adina were mixed on
they still do early grade like for all the elementary schools and identical schedule so under third grade as in early early early late start Monday Tuesday Thursday Friday.
So Wednesdays are our feedback from our community Wednesday is the worst day of Moriah because all of Gloria and already started eight all students.
So that's something to consider. That schedule is being discussed, at least in some ways.
Okay. And as a follow up, do you know?
No decisions.
Do you know how many OS kids write a class to get to school, and what percentage are on the plate?
Well, there's 10, I think like eight to 10 buses that are part of where students are
bus year now, about 45 students for bus, I think, right?
And then there's county buses, which I don't know that I know.
So there's a significant portion, really large portion of students.
It's how we bus to talk.
Yeah.
I did four in the morning in Piedmont.
With accounting.
Focusing on the morning.
We do have something.
Thank you.
Do you know how many students ride e-bikes or regular bikes?
Oh, yes.
Not that many.
I know the concerns are high and we're talking about it.
We've sort of done a, not this kind of a study, but just looking at how many bikes are parked
Anywhere from 10 I have never counted more than like 1516 the bikes parked there leaving them around the neighborhood I haven't seen them, but in the area, so let's see what we got.
We're super good and happy.
Really appreciate you're welcome.
Stay as long as you're any.
I'm meeting at six.
I have five more minutes.
We knew you were on borrowed time.
Thank you.
So back to staff questions.
I'm going to just jump in with one.
Smart signals have been, I think,
the hardware is maybe mostly installed.
But I haven't even been turned on yet.
Can you talk a little bit about what sorts of,
I guess I was surprised that the improvement of coordinating
signals on the wrong way and getting rid of some
of those time priorities only improve the time by 30 seconds,
feels like it should have been a better total improvement
if we make all these changes.
Was that only the impact of coordinating
that all the lines turned to bring them together,
or is that the total improvement we would see
if we made all these changes?
Yeah, it's kind of a two-step process.
So the 30 seconds that we're talking about today
is more modifying the current signals.
And I don't wanna clarify that smart signals
have not implemented yet.
It's in the final stage of design.
So they're going to start construction like this song
and it should be active by the end of rate.
So the idea is right now to physically modify
both those stoplights, one a quarter drive,
another one an I-B drive,
we are going to want it to create more red time for the limbs coming in.
So, on-coder-drive and on-ide drive,
they will have a very long way to pass through that line,
take that time and add it to the morale of the other side,
to give them more train time,
draw low pass-through points to do.
So, that has to be a change that needs to be made individually at
both those sites because they don't talk to each other at no moment.
But once the smart signals project is implemented,
my understanding is that looks at it more as a overall network. So all the signals are able to
talk to each other and collect data and allow us to modify the patterns more. We do not have
a clear sense of this time how much of a difference is going to make, but knowing the conditions that
exist right now, it will definitely be a positive change. That's great. So everything we're hearing
Just with manual changes, we can make some improvement.
That's good.
I wish I was going to point out what's
your estimate of smart signals actually being implemented
in several years away.
So we have two components to that probably.
There is the Lamorinda smart signals we call it.
That's both are federally funded.
But the Lamorinda component is more under the Lamorinda
control.
The session piece of it, though, is the countywide one.
And that's coming from the company side.
They both are right next to each other actually in design.
But the Lamorinda one is ahead of the term.
And they're almost final design right now.
It's a pretty significant procurement process.
You can imagine all the components that you're able to do.
So it's taking a little longer than expected.
But from my understanding, I believe
they are ready to get started on construction, actual
implementation with someone.
So we should have at least the Lamorinda component
of it by the end of the year active.
And we have negotiated an agreement with CCDA
to allow us to update all of our signals,
but a few components of it on all of our signals
as the second phase of it from the company.
So that will come after this project is gone
and then probably end of earlier minutes later.
But that's got more to do with backup systems.
The primary brain function updates
actually happening in first phase of it.
So just to make sure we're hearing that correctly,
our ability to sort of test and adjust,
test and adjust is something that we could do
as early as the end of this calendar year.
Yes, that's first one.
And that's manual hardware or that smart signals?
I'm still on there.
It's smart, yes.
The manual one, we can implement tonight if we need.
We have to, I mean, that is another completely out of my mind.
One of the things is it's not coming.
So I didn't mean it that way, but I'm sure you can.
So, yeah.
I see that as well.
Yeah, one other question.
So what's the distance from the North Ivy Drive to Coral?
The first part of my question, and then before 8 AM,
how long does it take a person going to speak like that
generally to drive that distance?
If you're not prepared for that answer, I want to say half a mile between one and three,
timing wise, it depends on the day. If you're painting more traffic, then probably two minutes,
but traffic can change quite a bit. There is the most understood location now in the morning times.
I think they had the time period of your study from seven to nine and I kind of would like
to broken down from seven to eight and from eight to nine because of the different parameters
to understand that early morning seven to eight because OIS doesn't start until 8.45.
But you know there are staff and students who need to get there and see that it's 4,000
be from, I don't know. So close to mine. Yeah, we actually have the data, they collect the data
in multiple intervals. So the data is there, even in the static overhead. I don't have it broken down
So, in practice, what we observed is primary turning movements, as you can see, like after
pouring something out of the tunnel, 50% loss cuts were cut, and so very motivation is to
get to the other side of the tunnel.
So, if you think it's between, like the concentration will be between 7.45 and 8.15, like the only
version.
So, have you thought about different ways to address that cut-through traffic?
And if our goal is to try to reduce the congestion
in the neighborhood and to reduce the depth of traffic
to keep the Maryland traffic on rather way,
I'm just looking for other things we could do
that might address that issue.
Or signal planning.
Yeah, I think it's related to that.
You improve the flow on with all the way
so that it depends on what happens.
I understand, but I also think that people are used
to it and they're still going to do it.
They're not going, it'll take a long time for them
to realize that it might not be faster.
Well, I do want to point out that the question is not
whether they're heading to or not.
That's a very clear that there is,
and that may probably will always be there.
I don't believe that's going to change that.
Every time there is a parallel street to a major trophic,
it's very common for traffic to make the decision
to take the street.
But the way we are looking at it is,
on a day to day basis, in a very systemic manner,
is it encouraging people to take the route?
Or is there something you can do
to be incentivized to keep them on?
What about signs that say no cut through,
or neighborhood traffic only,
or some sort of identifying cars
that can cut through versus other,
aren't there other things we could possibly do
to address the cut through issue,
which is really, I think,
what the no left term sign was trying to address,
what the neighbors want addressed,
what the school wants to be able to get to school, obviously,
and have people get there safely.
I feel like we have to figure out some different ways
of thinking about a compromise of some sort
that would actually address this cut-through situation.
Yeah, I mean, I can answer from an engineering standpoint.
Along Ivy Drive, what we would generally consider
as improvements in this pool route,
most of them are already in place.
It's got yellow crosswalks, bright signs,
stop intersections, speed push-ins,
and H-lines driving to separate parking area,
and then a sidewalk for the most part.
There is the first question near the number one area
that doesn't have a cycle of religion,
but rest of it, that's how it sounds like.
From a throughout school that's accessed by students,
yes, it's already has most of the engineering thing.
Implementing the local through traffic and assign
becomes more of an enforcement issue at that point.
Yes, we heard it.
I mean, what we're proposing is also similar
The other drive restriction you're proposing is very similar in that we are saying no right
turn primarily to avoid no cut rule. So it means no cut rule but the regulatory signs
show in turn in the right form. Same as the parent left turn it just becomes at that point
like how much in person can we do to keep it at that point.
A separate set of questions I have is about that intersection where we have maybe it's
only 20 now, but I think the number of riders on bicycles is going to increase. How do we make
that, if they're coming from Arinda and have to turn left on Ivy Drive to get to school,
how do we make that turn safe for bicycles? Because right now they have to get in that
left turn lane with the cars and turn left across Virago Way, which might be difficult
for a young rider to do safely every day. Yeah, that is correct. Right now there is no crosswalk
or a stoplight at the intersection. Moragabe is what we call a class two bike lane, so it's just
the shoulders that act as the bike lane. So any biker who's coming to that intersection would
transition into the left-hand pocket and turn left, same like a very total biker.
and what we are considering looking into is the Bicycles, Trades and Walkway Plan versus
fairly old right now and currently we have released a list of proposals to
add a consulting team to update the plan and this is one of the sections that we'll be looked at and
that would be the revenue where we look at it more from a pedestrian bicycle
point of view in what can be done to include safety or functionality
after the intersection and based on the recommendations typically the project
comes off it and then in the work on engineering.
I'm going to ask you two different questions that one and they're kind of
contradictory because and this was going to my head
during the presentation we touched on some of this but the first thing I was
the human given, I was I was going to surprise by the number of when the no left turn was there,
sign was there, that still 97 people were right, Jerry never stripped an hour, made that letter.
And so given how many didn't abide by the sign when it was there, like I thought why do we think
the no right to resign onto artists will be adhered to.
Right? And I, you know, and I,
we can talk to discussion about the definition of two products
and maybe we can make an exception
and have some targeted enforcement.
Cause I feel like if you're aiming at youth drivers,
you know, a few of them get tickets
and it probably goes around social Michigan stops.
I'm hoping, but who knows.
But then the other question,
and here's why it's come from injuries, I thought,
Well, how do we stop people also from,
you know, how do we protect coral
as a walking spot?
And how do we put in as many signs as possible
so that it's really clear that if you do make
that left turn onto ivy,
you're stuck on ivy drive the whole way,
which is much longer, right?
And so was there any thought about a no right turn
is like a second, no right to resign,
just sort of bring it home and, you know,
I get it, but not, so that's something
that's gone through it too, but.
On to, on to Corp.
Yeah, you kind of answered it for me.
It's like, we can put as many fantastic moment.
It becomes much more harder to enforce the more science
we have, the more conflicting movements we are creating,
more important points.
And then your residents, right?
You have to leave, haven't they get out?
Well, this is only one out, right?
We're not talking about, we're talking about that.
We're trying to, for the residents benefit.
Like, and my first house is right off the bar,
and I'm very familiar with this area.
Walked kids to Delray and LAS for the Baltimore.
Well, I can't explain why we can say that
I live for a long time, right?
it's kind of similar response there.
I did this actually also in IELTS 3.
And it's got a ton of residential problems
and it's telling it up to them.
And as you can see, when somebody taking,
making a left turn, like point number one,
they have two choices to make.
One, stay at IV drive, go through speed bump,
the stop sign, the OAS traffic, all that.
Or they got there.
And once they make the decision to take advantage,
they again can take two different routes
to get to Mira 1D for assuming you're talking
with so many triangles.
They can turn right on for where the blue line ends.
That's where the other signal comes into play
because that signal is incentivizing them
to make that right turn there.
As soon as I get there.
To make a left.
Right, and it turns green, so it makes it easier
for them to make a left-hand corner of our way.
that moment we feel like it's very encouraging in this whole scenario that's why the right
time no right time recommendations for that's why again the enforcement part of it is still going
to be an issue but I do want to mention that from getting multiple feedbacks looks like we have had
multiple enforcement I mean the day they took the data collected the data of course there was no
enforcement so that's why we picked up whatever but there had been significant enforcement whenever
they are able to visit. Is it Southway or Coral? Which one? One of them does. I'm not
a young man. There are speed bumps on the north piece of Coral nine. residents are saying Southway
I've not called before.
Horal has two down between the intersection of IV and yeast.
But none that are on your telly list.
I can point to that on the map for those in the survey.
I don't know where to find it, but I'll just see please.
So it's right here in this thing.
But those are between where Ardeth hits coral and Moraga way,
there are no speakers.
And I hesitate to think that because that's
going to be an approval exactly.
I'm sorry.
Vice mayor, do you have anything you'd like to add?
Yeah, I have two for questions for you, Seema, and the staff.
One, would it be the collective belief
that MOFD would not allow the installation
of speed cushions on ARDOT?
It depends on the severity zone.
Right.
I'd like to look at the map again
because the new file map.
It's already turned right on the end.
right. So it will be up to n one of these interpretation and how they are. But if it's
within a very severe finances, don't they are?
Because the commentary about additional traffic calming measures on art, it seemed to me to
be not limited, but essentially almost non existent.
As far as
Yeah, as far as anything you can do to that stream. And my second question, Siva is, what's
the length that would be required to complete the sidewalk on coral?
Probably we need some help, but it's basically from this point.
Okay.
Did we do that?
Six hundred or so.
Too long blocks.
Okay.
Too short blocks.
No, there's some challenges in implementing a project like that,
because although we have right of way, there are
frontages of homes. But the project that got completed in
2015, had the same year challenges. And they were
implemented. So it would be very similar.
I'm not sure.
So Riley,
I'm just wondering what the how the data would turn out if if
there was no sign right now. I wonder, feel like I don't
have reliable data because it's an assignment and you shouldn't do it. So there's some good
residents out there.
I mean, that's a good question. Because until 2022, the restriction was very in line with
minimum day starting time. Because 7-8 and minimum day started at 8 o'clock. So anybody who had to
take that they're telling you legally but now as it stands between 8 and 8 30 they can legally
make this thing there is nothing restricting there and then management is not only a return
source that's why in the count they are the control that's like
yeah so post restriction you can say there's 318 cards versus pre restriction 9 and 7 so
If there is no sign existing, probably you'll see it could be a really heavy load on that
paper.
Potentially, yes.
I wonder how reliable our data is because it didn't measure what it would be like if
there was no sign.
But we're just saying, remove the sign and I think you will, let me get back to you.
You're greater than-
Oh, I see.
Thank you.
Thanks for the time.
Like I said, the intent is that we are not trying to explain that there will not be any
deployment.
That's why the measures that are being put are more to incentivize them not to do.
Even the 318 can be reduced if they don't need to take that term, if they are OK to
stay on run away, if they are to stay on run away because their timing is better to stay
on run away, even that number won't come.
So what are the incentives?
There's going to be 30 seconds less?
That's strange.
And what does that kid know?
That it's fast.
I don't know that that's going to go down.
Well, it's got more to do,
not necessarily explaining to them,
more so that they experience it.
Right, 30 seconds isn't very good.
30 seconds is.
How do they feel that?
They don't feel.
I'm not sure exactly whether 30 seconds is.
30 seconds.
Okay, it was like around three minutes, 30 seconds,
And then with coordination, it came down to three minutes.
So that's the 30-second savings that we are talking about.
But I think the 30 seconds,
there are only three signalized intersections, right?
So it's basically coordinating only three intersections.
So that's 10 seconds of load at each location.
The other thing that we are going to do
is increase the green time on Moraga Bay
and reduce the green time on Borrell Drive
and Ivy Drive, right?
That will be noticed.
they will notice that because they are getting stuck right and they are maybe having to wait
for two cycles before they can come on to Moraga wait right so and each cycle for a signal
is approximately two minutes so if they are to wait for two cycles you're talking about waiting
four minutes before they can get in right so they will see the difference that if they stay on Moraga
wait they can go from the top to the bottom much quicker than trying to cut through and getting
stuck at most. Okay, we've not quantified that. The data doesn't quantify the
the extra wait time. It only quantified the effect of manually coordinating signals on
Maratha way. That's for shockingly are not permanently coordinated.
Shiva mentioned the intersections
are not connected to each other,
so they cannot talk to each other.
But as part of the smart signal project,
there will be cellular communication back to the cloud
from where the intersection can talk to each other
and then the coordination will work.
And I'm sorry to interrupt you.
Well, okay, I guess I'm believing there's a little incentive
for a 15, 16, 17-year-old.
But I'm worried about this, the kids on Ivy
and standing it up and he's going to make that illegal
right turn because he made it when it was illegal
go left, wrong way.
So I just don't think we addressed the other half
of this problem.
And I think we should maybe really push
for the calming measures on that road
or this point doesn't really make all that much sense.
I mean, it really is not much of an improvement
unless they fight for slowing it down on that.
Giving them, incentivizing them not to turn right on.
And the illegal turn does not stop her.
Yeah, I want to keep it to questions for a minute
because I think we've got a lot to talk about.
I'm excited about that.
If I may.
What do you want?
So guys, I'm going to answer one other thing.
Let me just add that too.
So, I've number three, which is coral drive in the section.
Right now, during the restriction time,
that's the route that is being recommended
for drivers to be taken to good ways or high regard access.
There is no left turn pocket long enough
on current drive turn and it's a in the only green turn.
I mean, there is no dedicated left turn
from wherever they want to go and drive.
So as many cars as they are waiting,
we have observed this, another traffic station affairs.
One we have access more other way further.
Plus we have all sorts of people
trying to pass the cars that we need to make the left turn
and they are approaching much closer
into the walkway that's next to it or the bike lane,
which is also accepted in front of it.
So as far as that left turn movement on top
is restricting, this is also a great thing to see.
And there's not room to create a left turn at the pocket?
No, not without some kind of warning
because there is, on top of the bike lane,
they've also established like a five-foot pedestrian,
like separated pedestrian access to connect
No, just real quick, because I had to go back and reeducate myself, but this, I think is important because it's come up a couple of times.
Is it a, a true statement that you cannot provide traffic exemptions to individual cars like you can make a class you can say the buses can turn here, but like we can't give the OIS teachers.
a hang tag that makes it legal for them to turn.
That's a correct thing.
If I understand what it happens under the DMV code?
Correct.
Okay, so it's not possible to exempt certain cars.
You can't have a thing in your windshield
that says, hey, I can turn, but you can't.
Absolutely correct.
There's an additional practicality
of being able to have an officer
be able to see through a windshield
and be able to read and determine
the facts and the achievements.
If I also encourage people who are behind that card,
not knowing that that person has the permission
to make a move on to follow that.
It also results in counterfeit.
Yeah.
All right.
So we have more than I thought we should have.
Yeah, that's good.
Yeah, that's good.
And if there'll be a set.
Your question.
More questions.
Anybody, I want to make sure we get all our questions out
there.
Yeah, one more.
OK.
How we, and I'm looking at Chief Rodney.
Are there mechanisms?
for enforcement that don't rely on an officer standing on Coroner.
And I'm thinking of sort of, if there was a way to inform a no-writer, on art, or even
a no-writer on North art of things about those, especially license plate readers, or cameras,
tickets.
Actually, that's my best idea for the future.
I'm serious.
I'm serious.
That would be something I'd have to do research on, like those
cameras that you go through a soft light, and it takes a photo
and it's entering electronic TV.
That would be something I'd have to do some research and I could
come back to you guys with, if that's feasible for power to have
that located, but that could also be at that turn off of
the morog up on the IV, or anybody making it during that
period. If that was the way the decision went, that would take photographs of that period.
Please. If, and I have been doing some research, Chief Rossi, if I understand correctly right now,
there are only like six jurisdictions in the state of California that have
authority to do camera type tickets for various things, primarily speeding. But I would be very,
very of the mind that it would be very cool with our bill happy legislators that just can't find
anything they wouldn't like to create a bill about, to really look at a safe traps to school
camera enforcement. I really would consider that an out of the box possibility because my whole
thoughts about this whole, you know, can't be solved problem really, would, you know, if if we
had some kind of enforcement ability that relied on cameras, instead of having, you know, police,
you know, real police officers, then I think it could make a huge difference in many regards
safety overall, not just the left turn, but it would take legislative authority to do that.
And I think it could be something that even our regional partners might be very interested in
in terms of, and even the most callous among people who don't like legislation.
school children and safe routes to school is usually a popular topic.
So I think I don't think that's the craziest thing I've ever come up with.
Are there any other questions?
I have one question for Chief Rossi.
Of this suite of recommendations, are there any that you do not think would make a difference
to helping make things safer and solve some of the behavior problems we're working on?
Is there anything that you kind of think would be less effective from your point of view?
To be honest with you, I lean on SEMA and the staff for their expertise on what they see
as far as my personal opinion with my children at go to Delray and having to deal with the stoplight
and all of how that creates the backup that goes all the way past IV summaries.
So that's my only side note for it, but if there are data, I have no other talks that
I call over whatever their data is. Thank you, and I didn't mean to pitch on the spot.
I appreciate it. If there are no other questions for staff, I would like to open it up for public
comment. Again, for anybody who wants to have up to three minutes to just really be able to
Share your perspective, give comments.
Oh great, we have speaker cards.
I'll call these and then at the end
if there's somebody else that we'd love.
Eileen Shire, here, share, sorry about that.
And Lisa Rudolph will be next.
Just for notation, I'll time you
so when you're getting close to three minutes
I may call out 15 seconds or something.
Okay, I have a note so I'll try to be as short as you can.
No worries, thank you.
I'm Eileen Scheer. I live on Art of Pride.
And the uptick in crazy driving since no left turn
got out of sync with the school belt
and that has been insane.
I have children, people, grandchildren actually,
who are walking in the area and it's just not safe.
The big picture is that the convenience of drivers,
which is a legitimate concern,
is up against hazards posed to students
and everybody else in the neighborhood
by these types of driving from time to time.
Convenience issue, I will get to,
but the main issue could be safety
and trying to keep puppy driving out of
well, IV drive neighborhood,
which I think we might all agree
would be better for the safety of pedestrians
and everybody else.
The one day study that was done in September
recommended removing the sign.
And I have a problem with that.
The study contradicts the two-year study,
two-year study that was done in 2002
and following the place design to try to solve the issues
with cut food driving.
And for 20 years or so, it did a very good job of that.
It wasn't perfect, but it did a good job.
It fell apart when the bell schedule got out of sync.
There's a lot of context to all that happened
and I want to direct anybody who wants to weigh in
on this problem to the summary of the history
of this whole issue.
In attachment G, the letter from Doreen Mar.
I hope everybody will read it just for background.
Community worked really hard for over a decade
to secure the changes in the benefit of everybody.
Everybody goes to OAS.
I mean, it's a full of community
to get the benefits from the safety.
So back to the study,
from one day study noted that over half
of the 400 plus cars on highly excluding OAS traffic
was country traffic.
But this was with the sign, the out of whack sign in place.
And so the question that council member Riley brought up
the same way I have. The study did not ask the question how many trucker drivers would there be
with no sign in place? The answer is probably in the older more careful two-year study and the
answer at that time was way too many. It was just unsafe. It also says that the no-left turn study
that's currently out of whack didn't solve the traffic hazards. Well, yeah, that's true. We could
all say that. So they recommended that we remove the sign altogether. But if you think about the
logic? Isn't it more likely to update the science timing to
align with Melskine and come up with some other way to deal with
the convenience issue? I was hoping to be able to recommend
having an AIN tag or something, you know, so that people that
want to go to OIS and staff, etc. have a way to get there. At
this point, obviously, I can't recommend that. But I want to
reiterate, that the need to keep coming and traveling out of
the neighborhood is really fun. Okay. And I appreciate also
that there's a huge amount of time. So thank you so much.
I'm gonna ask people not to cheer or boo or anything. I
think that we do in our big meetings. We'll do it here as
As well, Lisa Rudolph, and after Lisa will be Emily for hard.
I think the city council for having this meeting, and I truly am sympathetic to the residents.
The driver area, they live within walking distance of three schools and that no matter what we do there's going to be traffic because we're bringing kids to all three schools.
I have a couple of things that I had my thing written in and a couple of things came up so
I'm wondering whether some of these through cars are also stopping at OIS because many of these
teenagers I go to to I to Miramonti they stop at OIS first. I see that then you park all day in the
morning. I see them dropping off their younger siblings and they're going on so I'm not sure
all that through traffic is straight to Miramonti. I think some might be stopping and going to OIS
first, but I do want to tell a little bit of my story of how some of the things you've heard about
actually play out in real life. So I try to get to OIS by about 7.45 every day. I do have
map counts on Fridays where I have 60 families, 60 every Friday, that come and have to go around,
but normally I'm there by about 7.45 every day. One day I was running a little late, so I got to
to the IV drive about 750, 750 more I think it was.
It can take anywhere from two to 10 minutes
depending on when you hit that IV drive.
It's normally two,
if I could just go by seven for that I can do it in two minutes.
I look at my GPS, it says one time it's two minutes later.
That day it took over 10.
I literally could have pulled over and waited
and then turned left completely.
I was at a dead stop at South Beach
when I was running and I watched the cars build up behind me.
this is 10 minutes before eight o'clock,
and they're building up,
it took me three light cycles to get through.
So we're pausing the traffic to back up
even earlier than eight o'clock.
And I just think that it's doing nothing
but exacerbating the problem of people
wanting to go around when that's happening.
When I get to plural, traffic is backing up behind me
because I have to put on my left turn,
seeing that they can't,
and sometimes they can't depending on how big they are.
So the traffic's backing up behind me.
Multiply those 60 kids that Dr. Lemmy was talking about.
That's every day.
That's a lot of traffic we're putting on rob away
that could be just going up, right?
And again, Coral is a narrow road.
It's got its own issues.
One day I saw six cars turn left on,
whether there's three in front of me,
two behind me, and me, six cars,
and people walking down Coral with dogs and kids.
This, when this was proposed last year,
you want to say what's going to happen to the traffic? Let's see what happens to the
traffic as a pilot and see if it really increases and what happens with it. I'm glad to hear
that the police are concentrating on the schools. We do need to make our schools safer. It broke
my heart when John Eramonti was hit by a car with the supervisor there. And so I hope we
can make our school area safer. I would also love to see the city work with the buses.
high schoolers don't have a lot of options.
And sometimes they don't have options
on getting your warranty.
There's no school buses.
My kids have to walk,
we'd have to walk a mile to catch a bus.
So I hope we can maybe increase
the buses for your mom.
Thank you for your time.
Thank you very much.
Thanks for acting on.
So Emily, you are next.
And just so we can compare,
Nicole, a part of McGill is after that.
Hi, I'm Emily, well, Carrie, I live on Argate Fort.
I just want to talk about a couple of things I heard in the presentation.
First of all, I was mentioned that one of the other recommendations is a sidewalk on
coral, on the north side of coral at Argan, and that was not mentioned.
There is no sidewalk on a lot of Ivey Drive.
It is intermittent.
It's on different sides of the street, and there is no sidewalk from coral down to
more on the way on the southern side and on the rest of Ivy Drive there is not a consistent
sidewalk. There's more of a sidewalk than there are on many other streets but it certainly is
not consistent. So when we're talking about the safety of routing the traffic to Ivy Drive you
need to be aware of what's actually happening on Ivy Drive. I believe there is only two areas where
there are speed cushions on all of the IV drive, it certainly is not, it's a street where you can
speed if you want to. There are shoulders and so I know what the cut-through drivers are going to
do because I see them every morning and that is they're going to be are into the shoulder to go
around the speed cushions and the shoulders are where the kids are going to be walking on an IV drive.
The No Lacturn sign is a pedestrian safety measure.
It doesn't make sense to remove a pedestrian safety measure
because some drivers are not following it.
We don't remove traffic signals or crosswalks
because some drivers don't follow it.
The traffic that we see on Ardiff Drive
where I walk every morning and on Coral
where my children walk every morning is extremely dangerous.
Every single morning I see multiple traffic violations,
speeding, veering into the opposite lane of travel
when they see people coming, no blinkers,
running through stop signs.
It is not safe to have that traffic interacting
with children who are walking to school.
The no left turn sign was intended to keep that traffic
out in the neighborhood.
And so if you're gonna remove that,
you really need to work on safety
in the rest of the neighborhood.
I'm really happy to see that the traffic consultant agreed
that we should have a four-way stop at Arif and Fort Alcoro
and agreed that the sidewalk on Coro,
which was recommended 15 years ago, should be completed.
But I don't, I have a hard time thinking
that those are the only traffic safety improvements
that should be made.
I was under the impression at the last meeting
that we were gonna come back
with a comprehensive safety plan,
which would evaluate where the cut-through traffic
is gonna go.
And I hope you agree with me by your questions
that it's extremely unlikely that we're suddenly
going to see all of the cut-through traffic
deciding to stay on the Rockaway.
That's kind of nice.
I would really hope that you will work with the school
district on changing the start times so that they
know that trend can be effective.
I think it's easy to say no and have been
with a lot of people.
But if the city could get a representative on the committee
and do some hard work on that, I would really appreciate it.
So thank you very much for your time.
Thank you very much.
Nicole, and then after that is Rodrigo Almeida.
My name is Vanessa.
Hello.
Thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight
about an important safety issue.
My name's Nicole Carter-McGill, and I
have been first book drive off of Portal.
We've been part of it on the way through Nashville.
This is really helpful.
So I live here, and I've watched it
with my daughters to Delray every single day
for the last six and a half years.
And we walk here and we walk down the coral.
So this gives me a direct daily experience
with traffic patterns and safety risks in this area.
I strongly support the proposed stop sign
at coral and arid and the striking recommendations
on coral, including the edging and the middle line.
These are long overdue and will help us improve safety
for the many students that are walking.
children walk every morning with a long portal
to Delray, to Miramati, and to LIS.
However, we cannot stop there.
These prioritize completing the sidewalk
and the portal from Arctic to Morocco Way.
Right now, children are forced to walk in the roadway
while Miramati drivers race down the hill on one side.
It's an obvious and preventable safety hazard.
It should not take a serious injury to prompt action.
However, I do.
From what I see every day,
I feel that we are on the verge of a tragedy.
I believe completing the sidewalk is the most direct
and meaningful way that the city can take to protect
our community from the track fee.
We talked a lot tonight also about the cut-through traffic
and this is actually really helpful.
So I know that the consultants talk about
the decreasing the green time here.
What we see already happening when I'm walking to school
is very much if I zoom down the hill
and when I say zoom, I mean, they really zoom.
And then this is already building up traffic here.
So what they do instead now is they come down
Karaschup Drive, my whole street,
we call it the race track between 8 and 8 to 30
every morning.
And then they turn on Eastwood, down here,
to, and then just push their way into traffic.
So they do that to avoid
having to turn at the light on coral.
So decreasing the light time at coral green time
is also worrisome because that's just gonna increase,
They're just finding more different ways to cut through.
I also have a question about the traffic signal length.
And while that sounds like a wonderful idea,
timing the signals, and I don't know exactly how that works,
a couple of things that I think would be a problem with that
is, again, there's nowhere to turn left.
When you're coming here and you want to turn on coral,
there is no left turn,
so that blocks up traffic every single time.
So I'm not sure how you can time lights
when something's getting completely locked up.
Also on Eastwood here and further up Ivy on Valley View,
there's a pedestrian activated crosswalk.
So, which are both wonderful things,
but how that is also going to stop traffic
so I don't know how they are gonna be able
to time the signals.
So, for the safety of our children in our community,
we just moved forward with the Coral Drive sidewalk project
as soon as possible.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Rodrigo is next, and after that, Jeff thought.
All right, so thank you.
I just want to point out that happening right here, which
is an area that the superintendent brought up
and adjacent to the speed train.
I just don't want to repeat what Emory and Nicole just said.
But I want to bring up, so I have two kids.
once you have the array the only one is now going to OIS.
I want to bring up first the coral
and arctic intersection there,
where even in the weekend if I'm taking the kids
to OIS to play ball or something,
I cannot see what's going on in the other side.
We live there so before we stop there,
it's just a no-brainer.
But I just want to bring up the fact
that people do speed every morning there.
And I like a lot of people who were taking the kids,
I actually live right there.
So you get to see the OAS traffic,
you get to see the rate traffic,
and also the marijuana traffic and all of that.
And the only intersection with the light is right here.
So there's an entire population going to OAS,
eventually they cross here,
the entire population going to the rate
and marijuana cross right here.
So they all walk right in front of my house,
and it's absolutely unsafe in the morning.
It's a little bit like the slalom,
we're all seeing right now, these kids come and they're going to, the idea that the most
responsible teenager is not going to speed down on a street that is like this is just absurd.
So the kids only walk on one side of the street because the other side of the street is absolutely
unsafe and even in that side of the street there's no sidewalks or anything. So I'm just going to
really bag you to first implement all these recommendations which may not work for you now,
but second really really working sidewalk. This is really really dangerous. We do not let our
10-year-old go to school by himself. It's half a block between right away because it's just not safe.
Okay, I mean maybe he's not most responsible kids, but still it's really really unsafe and we
have we cannot allow a child to walk happily to school because it's just not safe simply not safe
And I see this every day right there in front of my house.
And it's really not something that I can do to do my best.
So I'm happy to see all the recommendations.
And if they work or not, all of these people
will be breaking the law.
And hopefully, there is some enforcement that is feasible.
But it's really, there are a lot of kids going back and forth
there, and it just doesn't work the way it does.
So we don't have to wait for a tragedy for change to happen.
So thank you.
Thank you.
Jeff, you're next, and I believe that's my last speaker card, so we'll ask for the audience after that.
Hi, Jeff Fawn, you're not going to find me on that map, I'm about a mile north of there.
We're undergoing a similar issue where people are bypassing Moraga Way and coming on to Orchard.
I had a question around item number one, removing the left-hand turn. You've got 97 people that
ignored that. If you move that headache from number one to Ardith, you're going to have more
than 97 most likely. You're gonna have people that have already committed. Secondly on artids
or any speed studies done, we're finding it's not the number of people, it's the speed in which
they're traveling. They're going I think we increased 1400% on our side between the hours
where it was restricted. I'd be interested if there's any speed studies that's been done on
artist between eight, eight and eight 30. So I guess open question, what was the speed study done?
Not a separate one. Okay. It just exacerbates it. So I want to be careful. We're looking
at no left turns. So thank you. Thank you. Is there anybody else from the audience who's
not spoken, and the like to.
Oh, please.
Hi, my name is Carol and I drive low is and I'm on my last
child. So we're only looking at two more years of zero period.
But I just want to say, I think the teachers have to be able to
get the fortune that needs to be something that's addressed in
coral is so dangerous. That has to be probably those two are the priorities. And I really think
someone who's gotten to do it, we do stop making that left turn and so do all the other kids,
and I know there were 76 that still make it left. And once they see one left turn make it, they all
go. But I think, you know, and enforcement is really important for the school, but I think
enforcement and the speed limit. Everybody just drove the speed limit. And if they got
tickets for not going over 25, it would all slow down and all be a lot safer, especially
the kids on the boat. And those are things that can happen now. But thank you very much.
Thank you. Is there anybody else who wanted to leave a public comment? Great. With that,
will bring it up for discussion and I'm going to leave the public portion open just in case
there's a way back and forth. It's a little bit informal but I'd love to see if anybody would
like to lead on. Yeah I was still saying what are we going to do? Can I ask? I'm sorry. Yeah we asked
about my name because given the timing, maybe it's more effective if we all kind of summarize.
Yeah actually I should close the public portion first of all because I've forgotten it's
20 minutes until our next meeting. Yes. So I'm going to close the public portion and we will
ask for some thoughts on how best to... Well I hope that two hours would have been a sufficient
amount of time. I suspect that there might be more than 20 minutes with the discussion
from the council. I mean certainly we can continue this study session to another day.
There's nothing that the downstream do not have to finish up the discussion.
I'm not feeling that now for the public comment again.
So maybe it's most helpful.
We each just kind of gave some thoughts
so that staff gets kind of a sense of,
because this was a lot of really good additional information.
I agree.
And so why don't we kind of go one at a time
and then we might kind of go back
for some just additional follow-ons.
What time would you like to add this wrap up?
I mean, if we could wrap up in 10 minutes,
that would be thank you.
Okay, we'll give you two minutes.
Yeah, Scott, can you tell us?
Use it one.
Please.
So a couple things.
I think we have to put the four-way stop in
at Artisan Forum as soon as we can make that.
I think changing the lights is a great thing
we should do regardless of the other things
to see if that has a positive impact.
I am not in favor of removing the no left turn slide.
But I think we need to think about other ways,
other things we can do to stop that cut through traffic.
And I'm not convinced we'd really come up with
all the possible ways to address it.
And again, we like the background.
Vice Mayor DeWine.
Okay, big picture items.
I absolutely am all for as soon as possible,
the four-way stop at Coral and Arden's.
I don't know how we let it go that long.
We are a little city with not enough money
and not enough resources,
but we need to take every one of them
and finish the sidewalk on a coral,
no matter how big of a headache it is
and how much somebody doesn't want their bush
out of their front yard or whatever.
But we need to make that happen.
I was really happy about this additional data.
I was four or five and how many people turned left,
even though they weren't supposed to.
Maybe we should give commendations out
to anyone in this town that actually follows
the traffic regulations.
I've had a talk with the chief about what goes on
in downtown Aranda, so I'm very, very reluctant.
I'm completely open to additional ideas,
time modifications, school bell schedule changes,
encouraging buses to Miramar,
I'm open to a million other ideas
other than just carte blanche letting more
of the most dangerous drivers on the road.
Whoever said responsible teenager,
I tried really hard not to laugh,
but the idea of more cut through traffic
just really, really, really worries me
because it's gonna happen.
And I don't believe,
and I don't believe that the no right turn on artists
would be at all effective.
If you're breaking the law on Morocco Way to turn left,
you're doing it in front of a heck of a lot of people.
When you get up to IBM Ardeth,
nobody's gonna see you, nobody except the people
that live on those corners.
And I just, you know, and I'm not of the mind
that we can slow traffic down.
I mean, if we can put speed cushions on Ardit
and the people on Ardit would be okay with that,
that would be one thing,
but I don't think MLFT is gonna let us do it.
So bottom line is I don't have,
I mean, I spent the first five years of my life
being a traffic engineer.
And this is an incredibly hard, not solvable problem.
it does not have a complete solution.
You can't achieve it.
I do think there are things that could help,
but just letting carte blanche more of the world's
worst teenage drivers cutting through,
I'm just really, really worried about that.
And I am all for my crazy idea of,
hey, go ahead, find our legislators to say
we could use cameras for enforcement for safety to school.
I mean, this is a perfect test bed of
you can't solve this problem from a traffic standpoint.
I do agree with the signal timing things, absolutely.
Do all of that, those are all important things in my mind.
But the reality is, is you're just not gonna stop
the cut through by those signal adjustments.
There's just no way every teenager is still gonna think,
oh, I'm saving time.
Yeah, maybe over time if it really costs them
five more minutes they've some of them might cut it out.
But I don't know, I just, I just really worry about that.
So those are my thoughts.
Sorry, I took longer than my two minutes.
No, thank you.
I'm gonna go this one, I think, okay.
So I think there's no good solution to this problem.
Like there really isn't, there is no good solution
because if by stopping the cut traffic
but keeping the no left turn on there now,
with the timing, the way it is,
basically pushes some of the cut through.
It's not illegal cut through.
Folks just trying to get to work
or try and get their kids to school,
but it pushes some of it onto poor.
And that creates a whole additional concern of safety
because we don't have the sinus,
we don't have the four-way stuff.
And yes, we can solve some of that,
but we also are pushing traffic onto a street
where children are trying to walk to school, right?
So the problem is we have this area
and I know it well, I lived there for six years
when I have little kids at Del Rey and I totally get it.
I'm in favor absolutely of the four-way stop sign
on Ardeth and Coral
and, you know, definitely, I think the prioritizing funding
for a sidewalk, first from Coral to Morong away,
is a huge priority, but I think realistically,
that's not gonna happen overnight, right?
I mean, I'd love to hear that.
I'd like that to come back to the council soon,
but just for a funding and, you know,
for an overview of what that looks like price tag
and also what the funding would be,
so we can see if we can prioritize it.
I think by, when we passed our fire ordinance,
yes, incentive, yes, education, all of that helps.
But when people started getting citations,
they started abiding, right?
And so I do like the idea of thinking more
about how we get an enforcement.
You know, by moving the no left turn sign on high view,
we were to get rid of that.
And we can't change the time from 7.30 to 8.30
because all parents are trying to get to,
oh yes, then, so we just can't.
Like that would have been the, you know,
that's just another workable solution.
But by moving that to the no right turn onto artist,
I am wondering, I know a lot of people
don't advise by the signs anyway,
but also just having it on both ends, right?
That intersection is blind.
I do think that we should, you know,
again, that stuff's, I don't know.
You know, if there's any,
I think in order to make any of this work,
we really gotta get into enforcement.
So thinking about a creative way to do that,
but I do generally sort of think that pushing is,
protect, trying to protect artists, right?
and forcing, splitting in incentives.
Every incentive possible to,
so that if someone makes that left turn lane,
that they have to go all the way around Ivy,
and then they're waiting a stop sign at the under,
trying to get to Miramani,
and it's taking them as long as possible.
Having had three kids that drove to Miramani,
that, I think, would be a good step, right?
And I, to whoever pointed out that it was some of the kids
that drive through might be dropping off an OAF.
I think that's also a good place for us to remember
with the 97 that you'd like to sit.
I support all the recommendations except the no,
changing the no left turn.
I'm not convinced about that one.
I'm feeling that there's no perfect solution
And it may be that we do it piecemeal
and keep studying it as we try the four ways to stop
or we try, you know, get the calming measures on our end,
get the sidewalk, and we just keep looking at it.
I would be in favor of a pilot on removing the no left turn
because then I get more of that data
and I really appreciate whether or not this makes any sense.
I'll take it up.
I'm gonna try it really fast,
but my thoughts are sort of scattered.
I will say as a zero period parent at OIS for many years,
those are all parents who are doing those 97 lines.
Those are parents and teachers all getting the tickets.
And I get all that in re-letters
where people feel it's grossly unfair.
So it's not nothing to leave that sign up.
It's not sort of no harm done.
I really like to pilot at least for moving it
and getting more data.
it's upsetting to people when they feel like it does no good,
but it harms the OAS community,
and that's just the feedback that I hear
because I was in that community for the last three years.
I do think that the smart signals
and changing it to make it a lot longer
to do the shortcut and shorter to be on the wrong way
is the solution.
Kids are gonna notice when the shortcut stops working,
but I also think we need to communicate the daylights
out of this to all three school communities
that Meravaway is timed faster,
that Ardeth is going to be ticketed,
whether we do give those tickets or not,
whether Meravaway is statistically faster,
we should communicate hard on those messages
and try to create that reality, marketing.
I want to fund the sidewalk yesterday, huge priority,
but until we can, there are a lot of things
that you can buy that are off the shelf,
temporary lane protectors.
we should put up, you know, some of those little,
they're like metal or rubber stoppers that will separate
the bike and pedestrian lane on coral
from where the traffic drives.
So let's stripe it immediately,
but let's also create a physical separation barrier
until we can find the sidewalk to keep those kids safe.
The one thing I will remember from this night forever
was a parent saying,
I will not let my kid walk a half block
to his elementary school.
And this is a Brenda,
Shame on us if we can't fix that fundamental statement at all four schools.
Artis speed bumps. One of my requests from the last time we studied this was to get rid of MOFP because that is not a connector to anything. It's an entirely internal residential street.
We should be able to get prevention and get speed bumps in our, we should use up some silver bullets to do that. That's one thing I've heard loud and clear. I don't think we're going to get the automatic LPR thing for the foreseeable future.
but I do believe I get speed bumps,
and I agree that enforcement and traffic calming,
anything we can do on an artist,
that's gonna become our weak link.
Getting bikes across Ivy, huge priority.
Please, please, please come back
with some thoughts on that
before the master plan is done.
I'd love to put that really high on the list.
And oh, also the inconsistent sidewalks on Ivy,
if you could also take a look at that, please,
when you're looking at the bike safety plan, it's true.
There are sidewalks but you have to go back and forth
and they're not all paved.
I think, oh, the other cut through
to East Brook off the top,
please take a harder look at that.
We're gonna need to find a solution to that as well
because like water flows,
the shortcut problem will find its way there
when we make the light it for longer.
And somebody mentioned how school parking lots
are closed on the weekends and the neighborhood
it's full of farkers, please stick with that.
And the second sign at the top of the floral,
I mean, not to write on the floral front part of it.
I do think having two signs gives us two shots
at scaring teenagers to not do it.
So sorry, Brattle, we are way over time
and I move we adjourn.
Well, can we take a talk quickly next steps
because it doesn't feel like there's,
there seems like there might be some momentum
to discuss a pilot that I've really heard from too
that we're supporting back there, right?
We didn't have time to discuss that.
Do you want to have another study session like this,
or do you want to have the next meeting
at a council meeting, which we can bring back
some thoughts around what we've heard
and what we think is implementable
based on right now not making any modifications
to the Ivy Drive, no left turn.
Are you interested in doing this again,
to have more conversations at this point?
I'm interested in a continued study session
And do a supportive pilot, if that was the thing.
Yeah, I would definitely like to see another study session.
I would consider a pilot.
So we could come back with maybe framing up
what a pilot could look like and not for a period of time,
get some feedback from the concept of that as well,
and then looking at some of these other suggestions that
have been made, as well as also how intertwined some
of these recommendations are with another staff
can respond to that.
I would also I would also like to request a little bit more
information that might be able to be done in terms of
enforcement. I realize how strange she thought she is but
I also would like maybe more thought put into that we're
going to change since then.
And the only I would say is to have another workout sometimes
with schedules, it can be very hard to get found out that we
had an issue with that. So to an extent to the delay,
But we will circle back very quickly and try to get down this for all of you. Great. If we can, I would ask you to at least put it on the agenda to discuss whether you can put it on the council agenda.
Skipper workshop and a reasonable time frame.
Thank you all. And we will convene.
There's food, there's food in there.
Yeah, food in there.
And thank you all for coming tonight.
Thank you.